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 Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-05 04:46:52

Whoah! Just some of the thread about this from last year. I haven't read through all 29 comments on the press website in the original post, nor have I scoured the boards here (nor anywhere else on the interwebs) for any updates. I'm also not in contact with anyone in Erlangen who might know more, so I shall dare to ask here: Any further update of significance?

The Gaststaette and Braeukontor bottle shop were to remain open, according to the original article. 

Just broke the news to Mrs, who is quite shocked. As am I! My soft spot for the place goes back to when we first visited Erlangen in 2004, as we were considering moving there from Oregon for Mrs's work. The Pils seemed to have a distinctly hoppy character, though sweet, not dry. Which made it weird, like me.

And we were there for their Fest in September, which was great fun. Contrary to what it might seem, I really didn't drunk much of it at all for most of the time we lived there. It was just great to have a big old brewery right there. 

The Gaststaette opened in around 2009, IIRC. We loved eating there, v. good Karpfen and the horseradish beef thingy whose name escapes me. And then the Rotbier was interesting...I will miss enjoying a Seidla of that outside at the Gaststaette this year...wait...no, I guess I can still do that, as the place will be open. But will Kulmbacher do the Rotbier, and will it be any good?

Anyway, it sounds like the classic case of a medium-sized (?) traditional brewery not making ends meet in the competitive new market. And personal reasons...Herr Kitzmann is a great big, round person. Hope he's well. 

I shall endeavour to learn what I can and return here with any updates.

TOPIC DRIFT

It is exactly the article from Fox TV News in Vegas that Fred dug up that I was fearing would surface. I have an explanation/clarification/rebuttal in the works for my website, but my lawyer suggests I should sit on it for a while. I lit the fire as a joke the day before I made the exaggeratedly threatening phone calls which led to my arrest. They didn't bother to make a fuss about it at the time. Here is a bit of what I've been writing up, with clips of the surveillance video showing what happened.

Las Vegas is a strange place. Full of strange people, where lots of strange things happen.


   Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-05 09:55:00

What a strange life you have led since leaving Colwyn Bay, I hope that you are now more settled and maybe we will meet again in Franken (Roppelt's?).  BTW What has happened to Tabor, since you have transferred your affections to another?

I couldn't make head nor tail of the video clip at that speed!  It might interest you to know that an old business colleague in Italy used to shock visiting friends in restaurants by throwing a glass of grappa onto the table cloth and setting fire to it!  Of course, the vapour caught alight spectacularly but the cloth remained unharmed.


     Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-05 11:10:50

Yeah I couldn't really tell what's going on in the video other than clearly you were not trying to harm anybody.

I'm not a fan at all of Las Vegas.  I've been there for work several times and couldn't wait to leave each time.  Stiebarlimbach is a much nicer place.
 


       Video of Me in LV by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-07 02:34:31

Did you guys watch only the 10x time lapse video? There are 4 links to videos buried in that bit of text...guess I need to pare it down further for clarity. But here we go, if Fred doesn't mind...at least I changed the Subject line!

The casino turned over a 15 minute segment of 720x480 surveillance video to the police, where my lawyer obtained it through discovery, from 16:45 - 17:00 on 19th March. (I was arrested at about 01:00 on the 21st.) I sped that video up 10x, since it just shows Laylay and me standing there, with a 6-second blaze of fire.
HERE IS THAT 10X TIMELAPSE VIDEO .

From the original video (which I also added the time code to, positioning it near the centre of activity rather than in the corner), I clipped out the segment where I had returned to the bar area from the pool, apparently, based on the direction I entered from.
HERE IS THAT CLIP OF ME RETURNING TO THE BAR AND TALKING TO SOME DUDE .

Then Laylay and I hung out there for nearly 10 minutes, at which point I got the idea to demonstrate that you can not burn granite with lighter fluid, squirted some out on the counter top, and lit it on fire. 
HERE IS THE ZOOMED-IN CLIP OF ME LIGHTING A FIRE AND BLOWING IT OUT .

The bartender didn't call anyone, nor do anything other than her usual routine, and nodded when I waved goodbye when we left just before 17:00.
HERE IS A CLIP OF ME WIPING UP THE BAR AND WAVING AS WE LEFT .

Mark, you're right, LV is a strange, dangerous, yet strangely beautiful place. I met some fabulous people there, but was also physically attacked for the first time ever on three occasions by drugged-up freaks, presumably Crystal Meth. (Breaking Bad did society a horrible disservice in glamorizing the drug IMO.)

I believe I tweeted about the first girl named "Crystal" I met way back on or about 27th Jan 2018, before I ditched my erlangernick twitter account. It was a 37 YO woman who said she was dying of several "old persons'" diseases, despite having been off CM for TWENTY years. Her eyes were bloody. Not blood shot, but you could see blood in the whites of her eyes. She said she calls herself "Crystal" so that people will remember her story.

The second was an Indian girl (well...39) who was raped and strangulated for four hours the night after I met her, by her meth-head ex-boyfriend. Her real name is Crystal Gayle Davis Hernandez...I also have a page about her that I've sort of taken down, but since you lot here are friends, here it is:
http://nickbruels.com/crystal.html .

BTW...jaywalking can be an arrestible offense in LV...keep my lawyer's number in mind if you visit the place: 702-777-9999; they are REALLY good! There be no phone books in jail, nor internet. There are numbers of bail bondsmen listed at the phones, IIRC, but that's it.

ObBeer: No Franconian beer in Aachen that I know of. Had a bottle of 2015 Boon Geueze last night which I got for 2.80EUR a while back. Meh. Tart.
 


     Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-07 02:43:12

Ah...Tabor...I started in on the whole explanation of Crystal below, to answer your question, but lost track. Tabor is fine, has been with Mrs the entire time. I missed him so much that I got Crystal (named her after the two victims of the drug of the same name I went on about in response to Mark), who was conveniently born on 23rd April. Or whelped, I guess. She's my #1 bitch. Well, I realize that may be impolite to some British ears, but she is what she is.

At one dog park near Pittsburgh, an old guy there told me his dog was "a bitch", and that he had been waiting to be able to say that without repercussion for a long time! Guess I seemed trustworthy.

The US has become a strange, strange place in my absence. There is an unofficial psychological syndrome my wife looked up called "repatriation syndrome", where things seem to have changed, but in this case, it's NOT just my imagination. There is something wrong with much of American society...it has gotten worse. It's probably the internet. Facebook, in particular. Gold-star sydrome. The soyboy effect (the biological fact, that is, not the politically-charged vituperation). 

Americans are so much more on edge than even they used to be. Or am I just imagining it? I think not. It is cheaper to live there though...


       Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-07 05:04:49

Glad to hear that Tabor is ok, as we had some good times together.

Not sure that the US has become a strange place in 'your' absence; I wouldn't wish to be rude, because I really value my US-friends as honourable, decent people, but I found it strange (not just different) when I went there in 1978 (I think).  It is so different to Europe - any part of Europe - and I wonder whether Americans feel the same way when they visit the UK, Germany, Bulgaria, Italy or wherever.  I suppose that they do.

Jacqueline and myself went to Orlando around 1990 (ok, Orlando is a touristy place but so is LV).  Later,  she came with me on one of my working trips to Romania.  When asked, she said that she much preferred Romania, because she felt more at home there, even given the language difference!  Personally, I feel comfortable in any part of Europe because we have so much shared culture and attitude, something that the Brexiters don't seem to understand but, then, most have only been to Spanish or Turkish tourist places.  

Sorry, didn't mean to get too political.


         Kitzmann in Erlangen by  AndyH on  2019-02-07 06:01:18

Not all quitters have even left the UK and at the risk of stereotyping...

No, you're right, lets not go there...

Although, it is their year in China!


         Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-07 07:13:05

See I think part of the problem with Europeans perception of the US is that most Europeans when they visit tend to visit the strangest most touristy places.  Las Vegas, Orlando, New York City, Los Angeles, etc. 

I think you'd find that if you spent some time in New England for example that the atmosphere, attitudes, etc. are a little closer to what your used to in Europe.  I often feel more at home in the places I visit in Europe than I do in other parts of the US.  Yes Orlando is much different than Europe and also much different than other places in the US such as New England. 

I wish that when Europeans visited the US they would go to other less crazy places (and IMO much nicer places) such as New England, Pacific Northwest, rocky mountain region (i.e. Colorado for example).  Instead they go to Orlando, LV, NYC, and so on and take that image home with them as the image of what America is like.  It's part of it to be sure but there is so much more.  It's a huge country folks.  the distance from Boston to Dallas, TX is as far as London is to Moscow.  

In a nutshell.  No I don't feel the same way when I visit Europe as you did when you visited Orlando.  But I suppose someone that lived in Orlando would.

That being said there are definitely many things that I really admire and wish we could emulate about European society and lifestyle.  There's a reason I visit so often.  But the differences are less drastic living here in New England.


           Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-07 07:24:24

Just as an added example to what I've said, I would add that the one city in the world that I think is most like my home city of Boston is Dublin.  Just my opinion and perception but when I walk around Dublin it just feels more like Boston than any other city I've visited in the US.  And really for me that is not even a close call.
 


             Kitzmann in Erlangen by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-07 08:02:40

Very interesting Mark and I'm sure that you're right.  You've visited quite a few places in the UK that are not touristy - certainly Dudley and the Black Country would not be on most people's tour itinerary, nor even Old Colwyn, though Conwy is but it's not quite Las Vegas or Orlando - yet!

Personally, I'm not so fond of Dublin nowadays, as the song 'Dublin In the Rare Old Times' says, they've made a city of our town (you can listen to Luke Kelly singing it on YT) and I feel the same about my home town of Manchester.  It's why I don't bother going to Muenchen and why I'll probably only call in for a few hours to Brisbane.  And part of the reason why Bamberg is lovely.

When I was in Orlando, I went out of way to try to meet ordinary people living there by going to local classic car shows in parks, etc., and talking to enthusiasts about their cars - I thought that this would be a shared passion.  If you go to similar in the UK, owners are so proud of their cars - most of which they've restored themselves - as I used to, they will talk endlessly about them.  But in Orlando, after an initial friendly response, owners sort of went a bit cold, as if I was trying to steal their souls - or their cars, maybe!  (I also realised that most were not the dirty fingernails type but people who paid for their cars to be restored - bit like the many classic cars we get on the telly nowadays).

But, I suppose that we should say 'viva la difference' - if we were all the same, what a boring world int would be!


               Dudley! by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-08 12:36:42

Mark's been there? I went on my car trip a year ago...maybe you're thinking of me. But that was purely Led Zeppelin-driven. Well, the Black Country for the mythical beers, which were indeed worth their mythical status. 

I found John Bonham's gravesite visit incredibly moving. But then Zep has been a part of my life since I was a wee lad of 8 years old. 

Ah...here's the pic I was thinking of, from my old farcebook thingie that I can no longer access...and the infamous Pennsylvania Bourbon is there. Mind you, I left neither it nor my bass there. 



                 Dudley! by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-09 03:05:48

Oh yes, there were two well documented visits to Dudley and the black Country in 2018 (there may well have been more unreported visits) by members of this Forum for the purpose of drinking the beautiful ales and visiting the lovely pubs.

And guess what?  When I went in the Red Lion on Thursday, what were they serving but Sarah Hughes' Ruby Mild!  And from a cute little wooden cask - mind you, I've seen all sorts of things coming out of that same cask, including, horror of horrors, cider!  So I suppose that it's the same kind of cute wooden cask that is sometimes seen in Stube in Franconia (Frankische connection).  Anyway, I ventured a half and it was good - actually, better than it was when I visited the brewpub with Don S. last year.  But it's way too strong for me.


                   Dudley! by  Jason  on  2019-02-09 03:22:28

Sarah can be very changeable. At the brewery it's obviously fresh and therefore sweeter. I'm sure Ronnie told you but maybe you had your hearing aid turned off... when he ws cellarman he would vent it for 10 days. It would dry out and taste much smoother. I think you'd prefer it. 


                     Dudley! by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-10 02:24:24

Naughty, naughty.  I don't remember whether or not Ronnie told me that (and, actually, my hearing is quite good, most of the time).  Actually, when I was at the brewery with Don S., it tasted neither fresher or sweeter. Taste memory is not a perfect thing but I remember it tasting quite sour and old; that in the Red was simply much nicer.


                 Dudley! by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-09 03:44:18

Yeah the missus and I did a UK tour last May. Started in Conwy and Colwyn and met up with Barry. He went on with us to Black Country (met Jason and AndrewH there). Then we continue north to Buxton, York, and finally Edinburgh.  It was a great trip.  So much good beer. 


           Americans & Europeans by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-08 12:44:35

Yes, it used to bug the Scheisse out of me when people here would say, "Yeah, I've been to the US -- Vegas and Miami." I used to laugh at the idea of going to Vegas. And then ... never mind.

I will, however, say that freeway construction there is nearly on a par with Dutch Autobahn -- yes, I"m going there, I find the Dutch motorways/freeways to be superior to Germany's, at least the stretches I've driven. 

And agreed on the east coasters being more ... well, I"m not sure. I spent some time near Pittsburgh on my trip back, and they were far more tolerant of weirdness than Nevadans or Coloradoans or west coasters in general. 

I did some testing. I would pretend to be talking to my lawyer on the phone, and get louder and louder, to see how and when I would get reprimanded. People didn't give much of a crap in Pittsburgh. Or I would pretend to be a pimp, looking after my hoes from afar.

Fun stuff to do when you're alone! Also dog parks presented a freakish slice of American humanity. Whatever else you want to say in defense of Americans, they have a lot of learning to do with dog ownership, compared to Germans or other continentals. Britons are half way there IME.

Anyway...next time you're in Aachen, Barry, I'll point you to the part of town I've landed it now. Lots of old architectual character. Maybe almost Bathian. 


             Americans & Europeans by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-09 03:07:49

It may be a long time before I'm in Aachen again!  As you say, quite lovely architecture but, unlike Bath, it doesn't have a plethora of lovely pubs, with lovely cask ale.


               Americans & Europeans by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-11 12:24:48

Or unlovely cask ale. Or Kellerbier. There is Alt though, and the oldest Altbierbrauerei der Welt is near Moenchengladbach, whose perfectly fine Alt is on keg right near where I'm staying at the moment, in an airbnb place in a fabulous old townhouse. 

Also Frankenheim is on in a place in the Zentrum. In both cases, right next to Koelsch, which is pretty tabu in Dusseldorf and Koeln, with the exception being the one place where Don & Cheri led us to years ago, and then where Don proceeded to fart the place up. Sorry, but rough truth is rough. Don had a penchant for doing that back then and then blaming others. 

Frankenheim more or less became my favorite Alt in Dusseldorf, despite the masses prefering Zum Uerige. Meh...YMMV.

I'll be looking forward to meeting up again whenever we can, wherever. As soon as I get my Toyota situation straightened out, I may plan to drive to your Isles for a final pre-Brexit visit. Won't be for a month though, as I've rented this place that long.


                 Americans & Europeans by  Barm on  2019-02-12 07:38:12

It will be far cheaper for you if you wait until after Brexit for the pound to fall further in den Keller.


                   Americans & Europeans by  AndyH on  2019-02-13 03:14:32

That might be a long wait.


                 Americans & Europeans by  AndyH on  2019-02-13 07:02:37

I've always had a soft spot for Schlüssel Alt.


                   Americans & Europeans by  Barm on  2019-02-14 04:12:12

I like it too, even though to me it tastes the most like English bitter of any of the Düsseldorf Alt beers.


                     Americans & Europeans by  AndyH on  2019-02-14 04:52:54

Having been brought up in Tadcaster, that's probably why I like it.


 Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  David on  2019-02-02 06:50:28

Hi Guys, I will be back in town for quick hit and run the end of the month for 4 days. Has anyone been to Schroll or Drei Kronen lately? Has the beer been on par? Personal opinions please? Thanks


   Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  Jason  on  2019-02-02 07:28:53

hi David, I wouldn’t say ‘recently’ but the beer at both has always been fine. I’m guessing you have reasons for going as they aren’t... well they are good without being outstanding, but then good in Franken is very very good in most other places. The tap in nankendorf is a bit like a cafe, a little lacking in atmosphere. 

They serve the drei Kronen in pizzini on tap FYI. And I’m presuming you’ve been to heckel (near nankendorf)? A great place, more than just the beer. It’s a classic. Held Brau is not far either and is excellent. But I presume you’re aware of those things. 


     Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  David on  2019-02-02 16:04:37

Thanks Jason for the info. I am doing a Bamberg East Brauerei excursion at a slow pace. I am trying to limit my stops this trip. Opinions are always desired. Presently I am thinking Ott, Aichinger,Stockel,Schroll, and Heckel. I am trying to design a nice itinerary. This is my ninth trip but first with car rental so an ergonomically easy route with a slow pace should work good


       Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  Jason on  2019-02-03 08:57:51

Aichinger is normally good. Stöckel is a classic. 

Sounds like a good plan. 


         Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  Mosquit on  2019-02-03 11:14:57

I was in Nankendorf early December. We tasted 3 different beers - I think it was Pils, Dunkles and third one I don't recall. 
All of them were clean (no issues), well balanced. 

We have visited the the place on Friday morning (around 11am) so we were only (and probably day's first) guests, so that is even more suprising that beer was that good. 


       Bier at Schroll (Nankendorf) & Drei Kronen (Schesslitz) by  Jürgen Wening on  2019-02-04 03:16:01

David, that'll be a legendary trip. Very good choices made. Talking about Schroll - mostly Jason and me share the same taste but in my opinion, Schroll Landbier is one of the best and absolutely outstanding; It's quite complex. I always can taste a little iron or maybe blood in the beer and like that very much. But that's a matter of taste. Aichinger and Stöckel - most underrated classics! 
 


 Franconia July/August 2019 by  BrianW on  2019-01-31 10:29:33

I am getting close to finalizing my rough itinerary for my first real visit to Franconia this summer, somewhere at the end of July or beginning of August.  Initially I had planned to visit with my wife to celebrate my 50th birthday and our anniversary, but it has turned into a family vacation with two young teenagers, so more sightseeing and less beer drinking.  We are flying into Berlin since my wife and kids have never been there, making our way to Bamberg and surrounding sights for a few days, then heading down to Munich and flying home from there. So I need to figure out a Franconian itinerary that gets maximum beer for me and sights to see for the family while I'm drinking. We will have a car and my wife is willing to drive me around.

I'm definitely spending a day or two in Bamberg.
Probably a day in Pottenstein, since there seems to be fun family things to do there.
I'd thought about Drei Kronen and Hartmann (my friend's last name is Hartmann and I'd like to bring him a souvenir)
Probably a day in Nuremberg
Annafest?

Questions:
1) Annafest--worth it? And should my wife and kids drop me off for the day or would they enjoy themselves?
2) If you knew it was going to be your last visit ever to Franconia and you had one day, where would you go and what beers would you drink?  (Excluding Bamberg, since I'm definitely going there no matter what I do). Any recommendations on a perfect beer served in a spectacular biergarten setting particularly appeciated.
3) Any brewers that are approachable to talk about their brewing? I am a homebrewer and would love to learn from the source.
4) Any castles, museums, or other sights that shouldn't be missed? 

Looking forward to possibly meeting some of you this summer.


 


   Franconia July/August 2019 by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-31 12:37:12

1.  Annafest is something that your wife and kids would probably also enjoy.  Live music, lots of rides, etc.  I wouldn't want to be carrying an infant or chasing a toddler around Annafest but teenagers I'd bring.  I'll be at Annafest this year on the 1st Saturday (a crowded day but we'll go early).

2.  Very tough to answer.  There are several places and not all near each other.  We all have our personal favorites.  For me there are many but sicne you mentioned Pottentstein that is one of the many places I really love.  Spielbach (probably too far away for you to make happen but I'd hate not to mention it).  Roppelts Keller and Lieberth keller up on the Kreuzberg.  Merkendorf.  Dorfleins, Schroll in Reckendorf, Moenchsambach ... and I could keep going on and on.  I think your just going to have to do your research and make a tough decision.  No way around it.  For a beautiful setting and a beer I really love for me it's hard to beat Roppelts Keller.  I could spend all day there.  Others disagree with me on that.

3.  Can't help you there.

4.  Admittedly I'm not sure what a museum is.  I may have passed one or two on the way to a brewery.  There is the brewing museum in Bamberg of course.  However, I think it's worth going up to the Altenburg castle in Bamberg for starters.  Have lunch or dinner up there with the family perhaps.  Nuremburg is probably a good place for that sort of thing as well.  

I'll be based in Bamberg from the 19th to the 29th with a homebrewing friend from upstate NY and my daughter and her friend will be coming into Bamberg from  Berlin also for the first Annafest weekend.  I think Canalissimo in Bamberg is the weekend of the 19th but I haven't seen an official announcement.  That's my hope because that is a good time and you and the fmaily would probably enjoy it.  So if you're there during some of those same days I hope to meet you for a beer.  
 


     Franconia July/August 2019 by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2019-02-01 09:32:27

Canalissimo is from 25th to 28th July. 

Maybe Kulmbach is a nice location for the total family:
- A beer museum more interesting for visitors as in Bamberg. Owner is the industrial brewery Kulmbach (minority share of Heineken). It is a combination with a museum for spices and a museum aboutfür bakeries.
- A castle - Plasssenburg with a historic museum
https://plassenburg.byseum.de/
- The Kommunbeäu Kulmbach with good beers. My recommandation for food, cooke
with beer.
https://www.kommunbraeu.de/

A map about the best castles, museums etc in the region.
https://www.schloesser.bayern.de/englisch/palace/index.htm

In combination with a brewery visit in Memmelsdorf (better: Wagner in Merkendorf nearby) I recommend a visit of the Schloß Seehof with a nice english garden.
https://www.schloesser.bayern.de/englisch/palace/objects/seehof.htm

Vierzehnheiligen in Lichtenfels:
- a brewery behind the church (very good beers)
- a beautiful church 
https://www.vierzehnheiligen.de/
Nice beweries in the surrounsings:, p.w.
Mwtzgerbräu Uwetzing
https://www.metzgerbraeu.com/
and some other breweries.
It's a butcher with good "Brotzeiten" (bread with smoked ham). A crazy small store for the village people.
 


       Franconia July/August 2019 by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 10:26:17

Thanks for the update on Canalissimo dates.  Those dates work out pretty well actually.


   Franconia July/August 2019 by  Jason on  2019-01-31 12:54:18

As always, subjective, but here’s my view.

Which drei Kronen? Hartmann is ok if you have a reason. Huppendorf nearby is much better. 

 
Questions:
1) Annafest--worth it? And should my wife and kids drop me off for the day or would they enjoy themselves?
 
Yes. And no, they would enjoy it. There’s a great atmosphere and though they might be a bit old for fairground rides, who knows. 3-4 hours in the afternoon would be enough I think, as a family. 
 
2) If you knew it was going to be your last visit ever to Franconia and you had one day, where would you go and what beers would you drink? (Excluding Bamberg, since I'm definitely going there no matter what I do). Any recommendations on a perfect beer served in a spectacular biergarten setting particularly appeciated.
 
God what a thought! As a resident I hope never. No such thing as a perfect beer, or at least there is, but it’s all about the moment. It’s a hard one, and you can ask anyone on here and get many ideas, all justifiable. I would say merkendorf, visit both breweries. For Kellers I would say Griess in geisfeld or the Kreuzberg Kellers, especially lieberth and roppelts - there are 5 Kellers on a hill, it’s a really good day out. 
 
3) Any brewers that are approachable to talk about their brewing? I am a homebrewer and would love to learn from the source.
 
You can try, but English is not spoken widely enough to the level you need. Plus they don’t have the time to sit and chat unless you catch them at the right time. They are also suspicious of too many questions, even if you are a regular. I would drop this personally. 
 
4) Any castles, museums, or other sights that shouldn't be missed? 
 
Outside Bambergs’ history... Oberfranken is full of charm, history and beauty, but nothing too spectacular, in and of itself. Vierzehnheiligen is a beautiful baroque church with a brewery out the back... seßlach is a very well preserved medieval walled town with a communal brewery. There are a few castles but they aren’t stand outs. To be honest you’ll find plenty of museums in Nuremberg. 
 



     Franconia July/August 2019 by  Mike on  2019-01-31 23:15:16

I agree with Jason. The rides and stands at Annafest are meant for younger childern, not teenagers. BTW, teenagers 16 and older can legally drink beer in Germany. They need to have passports, and show those, rather than a driver's licence since the Germans are unlikely to know what that is.

I speak German (my parents lived in Berlin). I think it is a mistake to drive from Berlin to Bamberg, and driving while drinking beer is definitely not a good idea. If I were you, I would take a train from Berlin to Bamberg especially as it is probably faster than driving and it is a long distance.

Sesslach is a really interesting town in the sense that the city has a brewery that supplies most of the pubs in the town. I was there on brewing day (I am not a home brewer) and spoke with the brewer (in German, I have no idea if he speaks English, but I rather doubt it).

I have stayed at the hotel in Huppendorf and eaten in their restaurant. The last time I was there, I heard people from the next table talking and one couple had driven a fair distance to eat there. I would definitely try that. There are a few younger relatives of the brewer around and some of them may speak English, although to be fair, Huppendorf is a rural village with no city nearby. If they do speak English, it may be at a simple level. It is reachable by bus, btw.

 


       Franconia July/August 2019 by  BrianW on  2019-02-01 06:03:38

Thanks for that advice and I agree.  We are definitely taking the train from Berlin to Bamberg and probably Bamberg to Munich, but it just seemed like Franconia would be easier if we had a car and my wife won't be drinking.  I lived in Germany twice in the 90s (in Mannheim and Hamburg) and have visited other times and other parts of Europe and never rented a car. I love public transportation and take a commuter train every day to work so I am very comfortable with that.  And I do speak German, although it is a little rusty at this point but I am working on that.


         Franconia July/August 2019 by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-01 06:09:07

Franz Roppelt will talk about his Kellerbier, Bockbier, and Weizen in Stiebarlimbach...in Franconian. If I'm there, I'll help you out, if you need it.

AFA driving from Berlin goes, I say, think about driving. Experience the Autobahn, unless it's something you got enough of in the past. A family on the train might be a bit of a challenge that you might not want to deal with on your precious time, but then again, maybe it would be fun, certainly different to what you get in the US. I've gone around about this myself. And you're lucky to have Mrs driving...nice!

I would definitely throw in a walk around Forchheim, have someone point out the "Mauerscheisser" depicted on the town hall wall. Well, you'll be there for Annafest anyway. Annafest...danger. The beer is so drinkable, and so strong (well, relatively speaking).


           Franconia July/August 2019 by  Carl on  2019-02-01 07:34:11

More free advice:
Stay in Franconia, and train to Berlin.
There is the new high-speed rail, which cuts travel time from Munich to Berlin to 4-5 hours, and I believe some stop in Bamberg, knocking at least another hour off the trip.
You can always rent a car in the Bamberg/Nuremberg area as necessary.


   Franconia July/August 2019 by  AndyH on  2019-02-01 02:29:19

A good range of questions Brian, some of which will be answered by broad agreement, others less so.

1. Annafest - Yes, I'm sure everyone will enjoy it.

2. Ask 100 people, get 100 answers. In general terms I'd say think about the whole package, beer, ambiance, somewhere where there are a few different places within easy walking distance of each other or just chill in a good beer garden full of locals.

3. Try Weyermanns. An especially good option for homebrewers, I except.

4. Plenty to see in Bamberg, Nuremburg, Coburg, etc.

Hope that helps.

 


     Franconia July/August 2019 by  BrianW on  2019-02-01 06:08:18

I'm glad you said Coburg because I forgot to mention that and I think we will end up going there.


       Franconia July/August 2019 by  Jason  on  2019-02-01 16:44:28




         Franconia July/August 2019 by  Jason  on  2019-02-01 16:55:15

Sorry but Coburg is not worth a trip. My opinion. There’s no beer whatsoever. And it has nothing on bamberg. And the people.... 


   Franconia July/August 2019 by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 04:45:44

Just a bit more about Annafest.  You def. don't have to drive to get there.  It's easy access from Bamberg to Forchheim and they have free buses that run up to the event all day/night long.  I just mention because you mentioned being dropped off by your wife.  You can all go and nobody need drive.  I've taken both my daughters there at age 16 and they had a great time.  They drank some beer, went on some rides, enjoyed the live music, and so on.  

Sesslach, as Jason suggested, is a great idea.
 


     Franconia July/August 2019 by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-01 09:17:56

I can't much to my esteemed colleagues recommendations - particularly as they tend to be places where we have been together.

There are lots of kellers scattered about Franken, most of which are pretty good (did nobody mention Spezikeller in Bamberg - beer from Spezial and the most beautiful views of the city) but I think that that a trip to Stiebarlimbach and Roppelt's is as good as any - then you climb up the hill by the keller and try those up there.

I must put in a little plea fir a visit to Neder in Forchheim - apart from it being being as characterful as any town pub, anywhere (and there are certainly some interesting characters there!), sitting outside, by the Alte Rathaus, on a summer's day or evening, is fantastic; not to mention, of course, the amazing experience of sitting inside - and the beer is usually good as well!

I second the suggestion of Merkendorf, two great breweries in one little village.  But, you are spoilt for choice and won't be disappointed, whatever you do. 


   Franconia July/August 2019 by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2019-02-01 09:57:56

A nice combination  in Bamberg is maybe:
The Hainbadestelle in Bamberg.
https://www.stadtwerke-bamberg.de/hainbadestelle
A small fee and You (or Your family) can swim in the river Regnitz (somewhere else it is forbidden to swim in rivers).
nearby is the Biergarten Bootshaus at the river
with a selection of beers of the Brewery Kundmüller 
https://bootshaus-restaurant.de/
So your family can swim and You can drink beer.
It's a walkable distance to the old city of Bamberg. Also parking places. Maybe combned wtth a walk through the Hain (an english garden in Bamberg)
 


 Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Jason  on  2019-01-31 09:54:12

What was formerly known as Green (something), next door to November Rain Bar on Obere Koenigstrasse just before Weissbierhaus (now closed I think, or closing) is now known as Strawanza. 

I don't know much, but they currently have Schroll (Reckendorf) Bayerischer Anstich. They've had Eichhorn Doerfleins and Will Schederndorf so some serious good taste IMO. I popped my head in last night and the very pleasant barman/owner informed me the barrel was empty. I asked him if they change the barrels up and he said yes, so it sounds really interesting, even if it had Schroll permanently. It opens evenings, I think from 19h, it's very small and at first glance looked like the trendier bars like Karwenzman, Ostbar and Schwarzer Schaf. That's by no means a negative, especially with a good beer on tap. Music seems a feature and I imagine it would be busy almost constantly. 

Definitely a great addition to the area, providing a convenient and much needed break between walking from Spezi to Catweasel's Castle. Their Facebook page is updated regularly with the beer on offer. 

I shall investigate further. 


   Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Johnratcliffe on  2019-01-31 10:29:35

That place has always looked a bit scary! Such a long walk between Spezi and Catwheazle!


     Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Jason on  2019-01-31 12:33:50

It isn’t now... very nice. I wouldn’t walk, I cycle laugh


     Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-31 12:41:06

Haha!  Yes now there is a place to stop on the way to Catwheazle for a refreshment.  I could have used the rest the last time.

It sounds like a nice addition.


       Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  TomM on  2019-02-01 02:24:11

I think the place referred to used to be called "Evergreen". When I went in there many years ago it was run by a nice woman who served Honig-Tiefenellern and Weismainer beers.


       Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-01 09:18:56

Don't mention Catweazle!


     Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  AndyH on  2019-02-01 02:15:51

Long walk? It's not really that far, I normally walk to Mahrs and Keesmann.

I rarely remember Catwheazle and it's certainly good tom have more options.


       Old bar - New scene... MUST READ  by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 03:58:38

I think the long walk comment was sarcasm.


 Servus! by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-01-30 03:10:23

First time back here in over a year, I think. Hope everyone's well, and it's good to see lots of familiar names still posting.

Been a weird, weird, weird year for Mrs and me. First off, she quit her career (not just her job) at adidas as predicted in Nov 2017. I sold the bottle of Hirsch Pennsylvania Bourbon in Atlanta for $2000 (paid $20 for it around 1999). Sold my 99 Volvo for 7000 EUR (I'd been hoping for 3 or 4k, got lucky there too) to a Franconian car collector after returning from my drive around England & Wales in December.

I then took a trip to see my parents at Christmas in Greenville SC and Minneapolis. That was horrible. Not just the weather in Mpls, but also seeing my parents and sister in rapidly declining health, mentally and physically. And I'd not travelled at Xmas time for a decade or two, just because, well, it sucks.

(Mrs says she warned me not to visit them, which I don't recall. I kinda wish I had heeded that advice...it's where my luck turned for the worse.)

Then I took a week in Las Vegas before heading back to Erlangen. I needed warmth and relaxation, and I'd never been there before. Actually never thought I WOULD go there before, as Mrs & I used to laugh at the idea. I landed there on 31st December and did indeed find it warm and relaxing. Pleasant, actually.

So much so, that I thought I would actually stay and relocate there, with or without Mrs. I thought I would start up a business, driving tourists around in a classic car, which I then bought. (We had decided to split, after a couple of decades together...Scheisse happens.)


I did see Uncle Jimbo one day, I think on 2nd January. Was nice to catch up. I should also have heeded his warning, that Las Vegas is a strange, strange place. I began to learn JUST how strange over time.

Anyway, the business idea didn't really pan out. I became the victim of serious crime for the first time in my life, save my car having been broken into once in the 90s. And I got into a bit of trouble myself, legally, which is being resolved, albeit slowly. I basically did the equivalent of giving a security manager at a casino the finger, but I was unaware of how paranoid the place had become, in part because of the mass shooting on 1st Oct 2017, three months before my arrival. 

My advice to anyone visiting Vegas would be: watch out for the young girls, and leave the weed alone. The new medical-grade marijuana that's being sold over there now --legally in "dispensaries"-- is way, way too strong. The girls are all gold-diggers, even when they claim not to be. 

The dating game has changed since I was young, at least in the US. I can see why middle-aged guys go for mail-order brides from places like Russia or wherever. Young American girls ... never mind, not the right forum. The internet has changed things.

There is quite drinkable beer in Vegas (though pretty crappy selection for a city of 2 million), and of course you can eat and drink well and cheap, especially the 2 - 3 pound prime rib deal at the Ellis Island Casino, the first brewpub casino. Barley's, another brewpub casino...too modern and run by twats.

Anyway, we sold our townhouse in Erlangen for a very good price in June, and are now renting a flat in Aachen. Aachen is lovely, but the beer is limited to Koelsch, Bitburger, and the occasional place with basic Belgian beer. It is close to the lovely town of Valkenburg, just over the border in the NL though. 

That part of the NL is fascinating (to me anyway) because it's all mixed up between German, Dutch, and Belgian. 

I had a 2001 Toyota Sequoia shipped over, after driving it from LA to Washington DC with my new doggie ... right, I also ended up missing my Bikerkellerhund so much that I got myself another dog over there, who was conveniently born on 23 April. 




Anyway, that's enough for now. I miss my old life in safe, clean, predictable Erlangen. Ah well.


   Servus! (Text from Above Post) by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-01-30 03:13:43

[Scheisse. the pic's hosed up the text ... here's the text from above again.]

First time back here in over a year, I think. Hope everyone's well, and it's good to see lots of familiar names still posting.


Been a weird, weird, weird year for Mrs and me. First off, she quit her career (not just her job) at adidas as predicted in Nov 2017. I sold the bottle of Hirsch Pennsylvania Bourbon in Atlanta for $2000 (paid $20 for it around 1999). Sold my 99 Volvo for 7000 EUR (I'd been hoping for 3 or 4k, got lucky there too) to a Franconian car collector after returning from my drive around England & Wales in December.

I then took a trip to see my parents at Christmas in Greenville SC and Minneapolis. That was horrible. Not just the weather in Mpls, but also seeing my parents and sister in rapidly declining health, mentally and physically. And I'd not travelled at Xmas time for a decade or two, just because, well, it sucks.

(Mrs says she warned me not to visit them, which I don't recall. I kinda wish I had heeded that advice...it's where my luck turned for the worse.)

Then I took a week in Las Vegas before heading back to Erlangen. I needed warmth and relaxation, and I'd never been there before. Actually never thought I WOULD go there before, as Mrs & I used to laugh at the idea. I landed there on 31st December and did indeed find it warm and relaxing. Pleasant, actually.

So much so, that I thought I would actually stay and relocate there, with or without Mrs. I thought I would start up a business, driving tourists around in a classic car, which I then bought. (We had decided to split, after a couple of decades together...Scheisse happens.)

I did see Uncle Jimbo one day, I think on 2nd January. Was nice to catch up. I should also have heeded his warning, that Las Vegas is a strange, strange place. I began to learn JUST how strange over time.


Anyway, the business idea didn't really pan out. I became the victim of serious crime for the first time in my life, save my car having been broken into once in the 90s. And I got into a bit of trouble myself, legally, which is being resolved, albeit slowly. I basically did the equivalent of giving a security manager at a casino the finger, but I was unaware of how paranoid the place had become, in part because of the mass shooting on 1st Oct 2017, three months before my arrival. 

My advice to anyone visiting Vegas would be: watch out for the young girls, and leave the weed alone. The new medical-grade marijuana that's being sold over there now --legally in "dispensaries"-- is way, way too strong. The girls are all gold-diggers, even when they claim not to be. 

The dating game has changed since I was young, at least in the US. I can see why middle-aged guys go for mail-order brides from places like Russia or wherever. Young American girls ... never mind, not the right forum. The internet has changed things.

There is quite drinkable beer in Vegas (though pretty crappy selection for a city of 2 million), and of course you can eat and drink well and cheap, especially the 2 - 3 pound prime rib deal at the Ellis Island Casino, the first brewpub casino. Barley's, another brewpub casino...too modern and run by twats.

Anyway, we sold our townhouse in Erlangen for a very good price in June, and are now renting a flat in Aachen. Aachen is lovely, but the beer is limited to Koelsch, Bitburger, and the occasional place with basic Belgian beer. It is close to the lovely town of Valkenburg, just over the border in the NL though. 

That part of the NL is fascinating (to me anyway) because it's all mixed up between German, Dutch, and Belgian. 

I had a 2001 Toyota Sequoia shipped over, after driving it from LA to Washington DC with my new doggie ... right, I also ended up missing my Bikerkellerhund so much that I got myself another dog over there, who was conveniently born on 23 April. 

Anyway, that's enough for now. I miss my old life in safe, clean, predictable Erlangen. Ah well.

 


     Servus! (...forgotten point about cars...) by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-01-30 03:25:25

I forgot to finish my point with the 2001 Sequoia...got it for a steal (you can get great old cars CHEAP in the SW US!) from the daughter of a retired cop. Had it shipped over, but I failed to learn in advance that Toyota, although they sell Land Cruisers here, never sold the Sequoia. This means that the parts to be ordered in order to bring it from North American to EU codes are a challenge to order. And so it's taking a couple - three weeks for shock absorbers (thanks, German TUEV, for requiring that I replace the front shocks!), lights, and things. It passed the emissions test, at least.

Once I get it back, I believe I shall take off for southern Spain to escape the winter here again. Should be CONSIDERABLY quieter and safer than Nevada.

Also, I started smoking cigarettes and got a head injury, which has worsened my already-bad-enough problem with short-term memory. Not sure I can ever hold a job again, TBH.

My old Twitter account erlangernick...I ditched that in February. Started up a new one in April or so, http://www.twitter.com/nickbruels, but then lost track of the password for it. And so a new one is http://www.twitter.com/nicholasbruels...minimal beer content though--mostly bizarre things about girls, dogs, and meat. 

My old email addresses are similarly unavailable to me at the moment, but the one I used to post here is correct, if you remove a '9' (should be '999'), if anyone should want to hook up. 


       Servus! (...forgotten point about cars...) by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-30 06:08:50

Hi Nick  It was visiting North Walses that brought about your 'downfall' - you've got to be tough to live here - or even to visit for a day!

Anyway, good to hear from you again and hope that you get your legal problems sorted out.  I don't have to tell you about me, quick look at this Forum (if you haven't done already) would bring you up to date.  Anyway, lot's of travelling and more coming up; Aussie soon, then the usual old Franken Tag des Bieres (still staying Ebensfeld) and now with my regular add on to Prague, which I've got to love.  Two more micro's open in the Bay, one 150 metres from my front door - too near for safety!

I've been to Aachen a few times, both work and leisure, nice place to travel from to other places but a bit mundane in itself.

Miss the regular German lessons and discussions on diet, the latter wasn't very fruitful anyway. 

Keep safe and take it easy!


         Servus! (...forgotten point about cars...) by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-01-30 06:42:45

Thanks Barry!

One thing that has changed dramatically is telephony. Although we sold the house in June, we are still battling the Deutsche Telekom to do things like change addresses and get them to stop thinking we're still using DSL there. 

Germans do things SO WELL in most ways, but part and parcel with it is the incredible Buerokratie. 

AFA cars go, I went through a 1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible (pictured), 2007 Volvo convertible (which I got to drive around whilst the former was being restored--it had sat in a Utah garage for 20 years), 2006 BMW 335i 6-spd convertible (hot rod, tuned by the Bulgarian mechanic I bought it from...burned rubber in 2nd gear), a 2002 745i, a 1999 Ford Expedition jacked up to 7' monster truck (got stolen and then impounded when found by the police, later auctioned off for $750), and the Toyota. 

The Volvo got vandalised beyond repair (total loss), the 335...sadly, hit a curb island whilst distracted and bent the frame, the 745i I gave to a girl I met who still has it but it needs a water pump, and most sadly, the Lincoln also got auctioned off whilst I was distracted.

Anyway, that was the adventure with cars.


           Welcome Back by  AndyH on  2019-01-31 01:56:11

Hi Nick,

Welcome back, having also been away from the forum for a while, it was surprising to find you adsent on my return. Sorry to hear life has been turbulent but hope some semblence of normality can be restored.

I'll seek you out on Twitter.


           Servus! (...forgotten point about cars...) by  Barm on  2019-01-31 06:05:24

Nick, it is really good to hear from you. You are back in Europe to stay?


             Servus!...Thanks all Around! by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-01 04:24:19

Barm...I'd lost track of who you were...sorry. Yes, for the time being. We have lots in storage in Erlangen, which we will be collecting (piecemeal) over the coming months, but otherwise, very probably here in Aachen.

A trip back to Nevada is in the cards in late Sept / early Oct, but otherwise, can't imagine going back. Things have gone downhill over there, and it's more difficult to deal with than it used to be. (See wikipedia for expat repatriation syndrome, what Mrs suggests went partly wrong with me over there. And...just stay away from Vegas!)

I appreciate Jason's points about the UK now, not being home any more. Well, I always did, but now I REALLY do. I guess I was just jealous that he got to get that figured out earlier in life than I did. Then again, Jersey -> Franken isn't quite as far as Oregon -> Franken, but still. We made that move with company support.

Thanks to everyone for their kind words.

Paul...I saw Old Mudgie bad-mouthing a blog post of yours on Twitter over the Mulletted One's (Timbo) Brexit propaganda mag. Uncalled for, but I reckon you're not too broken up about it! I no longer have any room for Spoonses in my heart, after the way they treated my dog and me in Ramsgate -- it's one thing to just throw us out, ENTIRELY another thing to make up a claim that she BIT a worker! (Of course, when challenged to provide the surveillance video, it changed to "Well she jumped at someone.")

Juergen...touché! Have to exchange Wales stories...still not made it to Scotland. Not sure I will, with the 29th March looming around the corner.

Anyway...will be interesting to see how Kellerbier tastes after 2 years away this summer!

Prost, etc...Nick


               Servus!...Thanks all Around! by  AndyH on  2019-02-01 07:58:12

Spoonses are only for using the toilet and then make sure your aim is poor, lol.

Same issue with Dyson, I won't use his hand dryers.

Further boycotted list available on request.

Wish I'd moved to Germany in 2008 when I was thinking about it.


   Servus! by  Jason  on  2019-01-31 09:41:32

Welcome back to the light Nick!

Take it easy.


     Servus! by  Jürgen Wening on  2019-02-01 01:01:59

Hi Nick.

You're sort of nuts, but welcome back!

j.- ;-)


       Servus! by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 08:12:49

Yeah welcome back Nick.  I would have said: geez you can go all the way to Las Vegas and get arrested but you won't go to Spielbach with Juergen.  But as I recall you did finally visit Spielbach before your adventure.  "meh" I believe was your opinion.  We forgive you.


         Servus! by  Barry Taylor on  2019-02-01 09:20:06

Do we?


           Servus! by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 10:25:44

I think the man has paid for his crime.  


             Servus! by  Jason on  2019-02-02 04:41:03

Haha, i just saw Barry’s post after I’d posted the same thing. Great minds. 

Barry, I’ll be enjoying an afternoon evening im Spielbach tomorrow. I am visiting a lady friend in Ulm today and driving back tomorrow. I thought about a visit to Spiel ach then remembered the accommodation nearby, took a look and for €33 I can stay the night and drive straight to work on Monday rather than driving back to Bamberg. 

Report will follow but I imagine I could draft it now. 


         Servus! by  Jason on  2019-02-02 04:37:10

Do we? ;) 


         Servus! by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-05 02:04:45

Thanks Mark. Suffice to say, I don't sweat the small things NEARLY as much as I used to. Things have to be bigger for me to sweat them. Or something.

"Meh" was probably an over-exaggeration. But then I was pretty jaded by years of rustic Franconian lager already, so all the build up let me down, I guess. I think I went twice. On my own. And loved the EXPERIENCE.

Was better than average Zoiglbier, that's for sure.


   Servus! by  Chris K on  2019-02-02 20:21:21

Nick! Lots of changes for you.
I have been nonexistant on this board forever. Just popped in and saw your news.

In a year's time, I retired, got a new job, got divorced, and got remarried....in Vegas! Married a Chinese gal, fresh off the boat. And I couldn't be happier.

I'll be returning to Franconia in May. So I'll probably be bothering the other forumers for some advice.

Cheers to all!

Chris K


     Servus! by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-05 02:01:06

Hey Chris -- whoah, that IS a lot. What's the new job? And are you still in WI?


 OT: Copenhagen and Stockholm by  FredW on  2019-01-27 21:28:52

The weather is too warm and sunny here in Los Angeles so I'm headed to Copenhagen (and then Stockholm) at the end of the week. I seem to remember there were the occassional Danish posters here, so if you want to meet up for a beer or three, let me know.

Turns out I will be in Stockholm for Akkurat's Frankenfestival -- was not my intention but I'm sure I'll stop in a few times for something interesting smiley


 Kathi Brau  by  Jason  on  2019-01-25 04:42:35

Good news! Kathi Brau will continue brewing. 

Nuff said. 


   Kathi Brau  by  pivnizub on  2019-01-27 08:50:35

Good to hear...!


     Kathi Brau  by  Jürgen Wening on  2019-01-29 05:43:39

Yay!
 


 OT: Munich by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 06:57:48

I'll be in Munich at the end of May for a week.

Anyone been recently and know of any interesting recent developments in the Munich beer scene, especially interesting traditional beers from the surroundings that are sold in the centre?

I'm aware of obvious ones like Aying, Schneider, Andechs and Tegernsee.


   OT: Munich by  Carl on  2019-01-21 07:30:51

While not a "new" brewery, Paulaner am Nockherberg had an excellent unfiltered Helles last April.
Not quite "in the center", but not far off.
The group I was with agreed it was the best beer we tasted from any of the big breweries.
(Augustiner was second; a few others in the middle; Hofbrau was last.)


     OT: Munich by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 07:45:21

Interesting, I know of it but wouldn't necessarily have visited, especially now EisWerk has closed, and en route between Giesinger and Tap-House.

Augustiner is generally the most dependable of the "Big 6" and a sorry situation that Hofbrau is now last, you're not the first person to say that.


       OT: Munich by  Jason  on  2019-01-21 08:31:39

There's nothing really 'new' that's not 'crafty'. I would encourage an Augustiner Helles in the Nuernberger Bratwuerst am Gloeckl - but in the Schwemme at the back. 2,70 EUR for a seidla, around a Euro saving from the front. 


         OT: Munich by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 08:59:12

Thanks, I know of it but haven't had a beer there. On the list.

I've listed a few "craft" suggestions too but can't really see the point in visiting too many craft bars, that's not what Munich is about. I've always been inclined to stick with beer styles that are traditional and distinctive to the destination.


           OT: Munich by  rkat32 on  2019-01-21 17:31:21

Just a heads-up that Andechser am Dom recently reopened in a new location (near its old location) next to the Frauenkirche.

https://www.andechser-am-dom.de/en/

 


             OT: Munich by  AndyH on  2019-01-22 02:06:18

Thanks, yes I've got that Frauenplatz 7.


               OT: Munich by  Barm on  2019-01-22 03:04:06

They might be a bit “crafty” but Giesinger do an excellent Dunkel.


 Bamberg Visit by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-15 06:21:53

First Brisbane in Feb/March, then Ebensfeld/Bamberg, Apr 21 to May 9 (my big day!).  Just in time for Bamberg Tag des ieres - couldn't miss it!

Hope to be able to sort out joint visit to Spielbach with whoever is there and willing to go - oh and also has a car, horse and cart or any other suitable transport.


   Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-15 06:57:16

We’ll be ther for a few days (2nd to 6th) as you know but most likely won’t be up for the excursion out to Spielbach since it’s a short visit. We won’t have a car at any rate. Sorry to be non helpful.  But I’m sure we’ll get plenty of hangout time with you at a more local brewery or three. 


     Bamberg Visit by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-15 09:30:25

Sure thing, we'll see what happens.


   Bamberg Visit by  Andrew H on  2019-01-16 08:36:30

Who's going to be about for the tag des bieres? Without going into frightful medical details, I have been out of the loop. But will I hope be up for a visit early may.


     Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-16 12:06:18

We're not going to make it in time for tag des bieres but will be there first week of May.  Hope to see you there Andy.
 


       Bamberg Visit by  Barry on  2019-01-16 13:11:04

Sorry to hear about problems. It's become a regular event for me. I suppose we'll see the usual suspects: residents of Bamberg, plus a few visitors.


         Bamberg Visit by  AndyH on  2019-01-18 05:32:11

Not until October for me (the other AndyH).

We should use the calendar more as it's easier to check. Although I notice neither of us, that have put our visits on the calendar, have remembered to say who we are, doh!


           Bamberg Visit by  Andrew H on  2019-01-18 06:31:15

Not the "other" Andy H. The original.you sir,are the imposter!


             Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-18 06:37:38

Well I can at least verify that Andrew H is in fact a real, tangible, person.  Not sure about the other Andy.  

Also I see that Barry has at least attempted to use the calendar.  Although he failed to put his name in the description.  It just says in May "Holiday Ebensfeld/Franken".  It could be Nick returning for all we know.  


               Bamberg Visit by  Andrew H on  2019-01-18 07:15:51

Could be, and wielding the sword of bierocles.


                 Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-18 07:49:04

I've edited the calendar for Barry just to avoid any confusion.


                   Bamberg Visit by  Barry on  2019-01-18 11:27:16

Thank you, o master of the computer. It's about the first time that I've managed to get that far! The format is a mystery to me.


               Bamberg Visit by  Doug on  2019-01-19 09:57:58

By the way does anyone have any news on Nick


                 Bamberg Visit by  Barry on  2019-01-19 14:14:12

Me,not a word!


                 Bamberg Visit by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 06:50:07

No, I'll try to make contact via FB.


             Bamberg Visit by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 06:48:49

Want to do an old posts check. ;)

I've been away from here for a while.


             Bamberg Visit by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 06:54:36

A quick look back to 2008 :)


               Bamberg Visit by  AndyH on  2019-01-21 07:10:03

2006 :)


 Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-08 04:07:17

Some thoughts on the 1 seidla I had on Saturday evening, poured from keg as the wooden barrel had finished. 

Initial impressions were 2 fold: Firstly, it could well be the Schwarzla brewed with rauchmalt. The colour is very dark, darker than Schlenkerla, and there is quite a lot of roastiness. Secondly, it tasted like a watered down version of Schlenkerla, and not in a bad way, although at 5.3% it is a little thin, like the Schwarzla. It was unfiltered due to the issues sing the filtering equipment as it would taint their other beers. Definitely different from other versions brewed by Huppendorf or Weiher, and I was mildly impressed, though others weren't convinced. But then they were going into far too much analysis - would i have had another? Yes. 

Interestingly, Matthias Trum of Heller may have something to say about the whole affair. Apparently, Spezial and Heller have a trademark on the term 'Bamberger Rauchbier' and whilst I know Spezial won't really care either way, due to proximity and the nature of Schlenkerla's worldwide fame, I think Herr Trum will be put out by this. I think it's a gentleman's agreement more than anything - I'm not sure I agree with having a monooly on a term like 'Bamberger Rauchbier' - it should be like any other AOC - if it's brewed in the city it's Bamberger. But I'm not familiar enough with the facts to pass comment. 

The next Bamberg beer war? I think not. 


   Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2019-01-08 06:11:30

The brewery Meusel has offered a "Bamberger Rauchbier" some years ago.
After an intervention of the Bamberger Brauereien e.V. Meusel has changed the name to "Bamberger Landrauchbier".
https://www.bierbasis.de/bier/Meusel-Braeu-Bamberger-Landrauchbier 

The opinion of the Bamberger breweries is that Bamberg means the city of Bamberg without the Landkreis Bamberg (Bamberg country). They try to safe the geographical name Bamberg for their beers..

The previos Klosterbräu was not a member of the society Bamberger Brauereien, but the Kaiserdom brewery was a member and now the new Klosterbräu is  also a member. 


     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  TomM on  2019-01-08 08:25:14

Interesting.

Do you know if this is meant to be a seasonal beer like Greifenklau's or a year round thing?

I would guess they are using Weyermann's rauchmalz. Certainly not doing their own malting like Schlenkerla and Spezial.

I wonder if Klosterbraue was a rauchbier brewery in the distant past?


       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 02:48:16

I'm not sure if they intend to sell year round or seasonally. I can ask a friend but they may use Bamberger Malzerei malt - the malt of choice for most local breweries. 

They have never brewed a rauchbier before according to the brewery itself. At least not one that was called ' rauchbier' i.e. intentionally. 


       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 02:48:54

Interesting, when do Greifenklau produce/sell their Rauchbier?

I suppose all breweries were Rauchbier breweries in the past, before 'modern' malt drying technology. Although it's likely that the result was more subtle than modern deliberately smoked beer.


   Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Barm on  2019-01-09 02:44:15

Didn’t Kaiserdom have their own Rauchbier in the past?
Also, Schlenkerla doesn’t even call itself Bamberger Rauchbier on its own label.


     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 02:52:20

Well the point is not necessarily for themselves, more to stop others from using it. Given that Schlenkerla and Spezial are very much rauchbier breweries itself almost synonymous. It's the same with Mahrs U (although Spezials is older), Keesmann Herren Pils, Fassla Lager, Klosterbrau Braunbier... the idea that they all have a certain speciality. Greifenklau's rauchbier is called 'R' - they towed the line. 


       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Barm on  2019-01-09 03:04:47

I can’t find a trademark with a quick search on register.dpma.de. The old Bamberger Löwenbräu had a trademark on its label but that was deleted in 1997. Someone tried to trademark Rauchbier-Schinken, Rauchbier-Currywurst and Rauchbier-Glühwein at various times, but none of those are valid now.

The only “geografische Herkunftsangabe” referring to Bamberg is for Bamberger Hörnla (the potatoes not the croissants).


         Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  TomM on  2019-01-09 03:29:11

Greifenklau's rauchbier is available in May. I had it once way back in 2012 or 2013. It was mildly smoky.

https://www.greifenklau.de/brauerei/

I was aware of the other Bamberg maltster, but I checked their product list and they have no rauchmalz.

https://www.bamberger-maelzerei.de/malzsorten.cfm

Yes, Kaiserdom used to have a rauchbier:

https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/kaiserdom-rauchbier/3387/


         Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 03:48:54

I was talking to Florian Merz and he told me about this. Obviously I haven't checked, I assumed he was probably a good source of info. 

I wasn't really convinced you can trademark something like 'Bamberger Rauchbier'. I think it could well be more of a gentlman's agreeement. 


           Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  TomM on  2019-01-22 04:48:35

Klosterbraeu Rauchbier has appeared on their website:

https://klosterbraeu.de/unsere-biere/

I would guess that it will be served at the tap year round, at least in the bottle, but maybe on draught.


     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  FredW on  2019-01-09 08:03:07

The Kaiserdom Rauchbier of old was brewed by Schlenkerla. I once came a cross a really old bottle in a store in LA, I bought it and took it to Matthias Trum as a joke. He said "Ah yes, we used to brew that for them..."
 


The bottles we used to get were really bad -- old and skunked -- that when the idea of a trip to Bamberg came up (1999) I was a little resistant because of how bad that beer was :)


 Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-07 14:28:45

Really bad news: Ryanair seems to have dropped Manchester to Nuremburg flights after March 2019 and also, possibly, Liverpool to Prague flights.  I'm anxiously awaiting the revised summer timetables but it isn't looking too good.

Looks like Easyjet to Munich is the best option, as I'd really like to avoid Frankfurt.  I suppose that it was too good to last (Seidla half empty).


   Travel to Franken by  Uncle Jimbo on  2019-01-07 19:53:29

Bummer, Barry.  I hope you find an alternative.


     Travel to Franken by  Barry on  2019-01-08 01:56:25

Thanks Jimbo, it's annoying but small beer when I think of the time and expense that you chaps in the USA have in getting to Bamberg. The good news is that my potential fare to Brisbane has halved since December and that negative results for medical conditions allow me to get travel insurance (necessary for Aussie visits). Win some, lose some.


       Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-10 08:35:46

The frustrating part re: coming from the US is that because of the time and expense that it takes we have to be selective on when and for how long we go.  It's not like I can decide on a Tuesday that I'm going to take a quick flight over for a long weekend because I want to be there for bock beer release x, or such and such festival, or I just feel like getting away for a few days to do some beer hiking.  If I lived in the UK, for example, I'd probably be a lot more inclined to visit more frequently but for shorter periods of time and could be more spur of the moment about it.  I know ... pity, poor me.  First world problems and so on ....  Try not to shed a tear.  I'll be okay I promise.

Bitching aside, I am fortunate I get to do it at all let along more than once a year (on most years) and I've got a direct flight options from Boston that are shorter than pretty much anywhere else from the US.  But it still requires a fair amount advanced planning, carving out vacation time, more money, and a lot time pondering and prioritizing if this year I would rather be there for bock season, keller season, spring time and the festivals going on then, Annafest, Canalissimo, etc. etc.  This year keller season, Annafest, and Canalissimo have won out so I'll be there in July for 2 weeks.  There just too much to do over there!!

Accumulating mileage points with an airline helps.  I'm at least getting a free Lufthansa flight every other year.  Like this year.
 


     Travel to Franken by  Gunnar H on  2019-01-08 02:24:03

Barry maybe the time has come for you to explore the wonderful world of European rail travel. You would of course need an overnight stay in Chester or London, but 70 Euro will take you all the way from London to Bamberg without any airport hassles. All the wonderful views while DB whisks you through the countryside are free. A lunch in the restaurant car is not free but well worth it. Give it a try sometime.
 


       Travel to Franken by  Jason  on  2019-01-08 03:58:50

I would second this. As a retired gent you have the flexibility and time, plus you can always stop off in Koeln or Duesseldorf. Look into the DB 25 railcard, it costs 60EUR per year and gives you 25% off travel on ALL trains (except the VGN area, annoyingly). 

In Jersey I had to take flights to London, overnight and then take a morning flight to Munich - the east coast Americans on here have a shorter journey time than I used to, and it was possibly cheaper. 

Sure it was convenient but every door shutting opens another ;) 

*Seidla half full 


         Travel to FrankFURT by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-01 06:36:07

Heh...allow me to hijack the discussion. I lost my German driver's license in Minneapolis at Christmas 2017. I dropped it, as opposed to having it taken from me, I mean. When I got to Las Vegas, I went to the German Consulate, thinking they could help me out. Nope...you have to RETURN TO GERMANY to get a replacement. (He also told me about how the Mormons are taking over Nevada politics, criminalizing prostitution...but I digress...)

So, since I had decided to stay for a bit, I resolved to get myself a Nevada license. The permit card was easy enough via written test (though it took weeks to arrive in the post IIRC), but the license...ridiculous. There is a 6-week backlog when you apply online to take the driver's test, which was necessary in my case because I wasn't surrenduring a valid US or other license.

There is a "standby" list if you go in person, in case someone doesn't show up for their appointment. But people CAMP OUT OVERNIGHT to be first in line, and whenever I went an hour or so before it would open, I would end up about 12th in line. And they normally don't get through 10 or 11 in a day. 

Long story short, I never got one. And I eventually lost my permit card, and never managed to get it replaced, though my passport, which went missing at the same time, did turn up again. When you think YOUR DMV has problems, be thankful you never have to deal with Nevada's. And don't even THINK about complaining about the German equivalent; they do a remarkable job.

Anyway...I never got round to travelling back here to get my Fuehrerschein replaced til September. And it took two visits, spanning two hours or so over a week. But...I flew from LV to Toronto, had an afternoon there, then a stop in Halifax.

DO NOT STOP IN HALIFAX. They be strange. And it tends to fog in, which it did the night I was laid over, and so my flight from there to FRA was subsequently delayed. I think it ended up being 36 hours or so. And there USED to be a direct flight from LV to FRA. 

Anyway, only a few thousand dollars for a replacement license. Well, that and some other things I had to clear up. I got stopped numerous times whilst driving without a license in Vegas, and only got a ticket once, even with no valid plates on the car. I guess that's Driving While White. No, not a guess, I know it is.

The legal trouble I ran into...a very strange couple of cases. It was fun, actually, when I got pulled over a couple of times, watching the cops scroll through my info on their monitors --pointing and laughing-- and then they would simply hand me back my passport, and send me on my way.

Someday, I'll get around to writing my whole story up. People seem interested in it, when I tell bits of it. Even hardened Vegas natives. One Uber(sic) driver said she'd stand in line for hours for it. We'll see.


           Travel to FrankFURT by  Jason on  2019-02-02 05:41:03

I’ll be honest nick, no point beating about the bush, watching from afar it started as an interesting story but it turned into a nightmare from what I heard. We all go through things and later look back and go wtf was I doing, but glorifying is not the way I would go. People on here were
genuinely concerned for your wellbeing. Perhaps what was communicated from your side on various media was embellishment or maybe our interpretation was skewed. Either way, put it down fo experience and move on. 

Just my opinion, and it’s worth only as much as the next man’s. But humility is a strength, and a skill. And perhaps it will help you get your life back on track, if that’s what you want. You are of course free to do as you please. 


             Travel to FrankFURT by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-05 02:16:28

Meh. It is what it is. I've been on the internet since before the WWW existed, and in all that time, I have usually taken a sort of half-serious -to- antagonistic role. In the process, I have posted all kinds of stuff that might have been off-the-wall to some. And I never used to use emoticons or smileys or whatever. It was up to the reader to determine whether I was being serious or not.

So, maybe some of that applies to what people may have read of what I tweeted back then. At any rate, I'm still with my wife, for the time being, though that may well change quickly. We've been together since 1991, and change is difficult. But she is very understanding.

Whatever you might read in the press about what happened...um...the press didn't get certain key things right. The security people at the casino in question was out to get me (crazy as that sounds) for some reason. Or they are incompetent. Or both. And the police only acted on what they told them. It will all come out in time.

I took a plea deal to get out of dealing with the expense and stress of a trial by a jury of my peers who would likely have turned out to be batpoop crazy themselves and want to simply put a middle-aged white guy with an anger management problem away, especially after the Oct 1 2017 mass shooting there. (Or the jury might have been dominated by disadvantaged African-American single mothers...that would've worked out much better.)

Anyway, thanks for being non-judgemental! I have to write it all down as part of processing it all. So it doesn't get forgotten, and to stop my worrying about it all getting forgotten.


       Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-08 08:20:50

Always willing to try something new and I like trains more than aeroplanes.  Can you point to me where I can find a €70 fare please?  DB quote some ridiculous fare.  In the meantime, I'll take a look at the Seat 61!
 


         Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-08 08:39:00

Cheapest on Seat 61 is London to Bamberg €129 single - that's a lot of bier!


           Travel to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2019-01-08 20:23:36

There used to be a special fare on the DB website called London-Germany or something similar. My beer buddy did it a couple of times for €49 each way. However, he had to take the Eurostar at around 6am. Not much use if you are coming from North Wales, unless you have somewhere to stay in London. Coming back, the times were easier. I could have actually made it back up to Newcastle the same day. 
Shame about Ryanair,only took the Manchester flight once,seemed pretty full. Times are horrible flying out of Stansted.


             Travel to Franken by  Barm on  2019-01-09 02:50:20

The beer at the microbrewery in Munich Airport is usually OK, it’s the 45 minute trek into the city centre on the S-Bahn that’s a chore. If you have the time, an overnight in Munich is pleasant enough, if you can push to the back of your mind that in Franken you’d be paying half as much for better beer ;)


               Travel to Franken by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 02:58:39

If overnighting in Munich, Weihenstephan might be a better bet than the city centre, it's a lot closer to the airport.


                 Travel to Franken by  Doug on  2019-01-09 11:57:00

Try Gasthof Lerner in Freising.  If still available it is very close to brewery. 


                   Travel to Franken by  Carl on  2019-01-12 20:03:55

I usually stay in Freising the night before my flight out of Munich to the US.
I've always stayed in the Bayerischer Hof.
Prices aren't bad, and it's right in the middle of town, and is a nice place.
Usually busy, but I've been able to call on the same day and get a room.
If there's more than one of you, ask for room 321, and if it's available, they'll probably give it to you.  Top floor, multiple rooms.
Fairly easy walk (easier bus) to Weihenstephan, or to Hofbrauhaus Freising.
(I'm not sure if the Hofbrauhaus has a taproom, but the beer is served in the small pub next door.)
I/we normally take a cab to the airport, although I think a bus is available.


                     Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 04:22:03

There is a direct bus to the airport and unlike the cab, it is free (I've used it for years and never paid nor was never asked to pay).


                     Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 05:27:22

Another decent option is staying in Regensburg the night before.  My wife and I are doing that in May.  Our flight isn't until 15:50 though.  I noticed this morning looking on the DB website that there is a regional train that goes direct to the airport from Regensburg and takes 1 hour 18 minutes.  I don't know if an RE train going direct to the airport is a new thing or not?  I assumed you'd have to get off in Freising and take Bus 635 over to the terminal but it seems the bus isn't necessary.
 


                       Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 05:34:11

And yes that RE line also stops in Freising so you could take that instead of the bus.  It's a few minutes faster. 


                         Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 05:45:12

That's complete nonesense. According to your earlier message the train takes one hour and 18 minutes. The bus takes 21 minutes from Freising. Also you need to pay for the train, but not for the bus.


                           Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 06:06:46

Your reading comprehension sucks.  Obviously I meant that the train from Freising to the airport is a little quicker than the bus from Freising to the airport.  About 4 minutes according to the DB website.  But yes you are probably right that you need to pay for the train.  I just thought it interesting that this option now exists.

But way to look for an argument where none exists.  Typical Mike.
 


                             Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-13 06:42:10

Now, now.  Please, just give the sage advice that this site is famous for.

As it happens, my flight gets in at 16,30, which gives me enough time to get to Bamberg (or wherever).  I'm not fussed about Freising, etc. and have been to Regensburg (once was enough to everything).

So, thanks for all the ideas, always appreciated.
 


                             Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 09:15:18

No. You talked about staying in Regensburg and going to the Munich airport from there, not from Freising. Secondly, according to Wikipedia, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freising_station) the train from Regensburg goes to the airport every two hours. The bus, OTOH, leaves about every 25 minutes. Regensburg is a nice city, but so is Freising which also has some nice beer opportunities.

I've always stayed in Freising and thoroughly enjoyed it.


                               Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 09:40:28

Meh I was about to type a longer reply to this but it just isn't worth it.  Life's too short to allow oneself to be drawn into stupid and pointless arguments.  My posts were pretty clear.  You have to be intentionally obtuse to misinterpret them.

I'm sure Freising is every bit as lovely as Regensburrg.  We're lucky to have options.

 


                                 Travel to Franken by  Jason  on  2019-01-13 11:34:30

Whilst Freising is pleasant enough, it’s a convenience stop rather than a visit in own right. But  Regensburg has much more to offer, including on the beer front - Kneitinger is a classic for starters. The area around is very beautiful and also chock full of breweries. 

 


                                 Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-14 00:02:42

I'd really appreciate it if we could have an adult discussion without the personal insults.


                                   Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-14 04:53:23

If you would like to have an adult discussion then I suggest in the future you ask for clarification when you misunderstand somebodys post or think you disagree with them.  Leading off with "That's complete nonense" in a reply to a post that you completely misunderstood is not conducive to polite conversation.  If you cannot understand this then I cannot help you.


                                     Travel to Franken by  Jason on  2019-01-15 00:48:51

Agreed. 


                                       Travel to Franken by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-01 06:16:13

Me too!!!1!


                                         Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-02-01 08:15:16

haha!  Yes I recall. 

A new version of the #metoo movement?  


                                 Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-14 04:21:38

If time is a consideration, you might stay in Munich. You could buy an Airport-City-Ticket (€13) which would give you a full day in Munich on public transport and then take you too the airport. After the day in Munich, you'd have until six hours of the next day to go to the airport. I think it's a no-brainer if you spend the day traveling around the city.


                               Travel to Franken by  Andrew H on  2019-01-14 05:02:10

Interesting, I had never thought of using Wikipedia to plan journeys in Franconia/Bavaria. I have been using Bayern fahrplan and the VGN planner.Doh! What a dope I've been.


                               Regensburg to Munich Airport by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-14 06:48:06

BTW, for what it's worth, the train from Regensburg to Munich Airport goes every hour not every two hours as Wikipedia suggests.  This according to DB's website.


 


           Travel to Franken by  Gunnar H on  2019-01-09 03:10:39

That's the 1st class Sparpreis. But as always with Sparpreis tickets, you will have to shop around various dates to find the best fare. I picked a random date in May and was offered the low fare on a connection including the direct Frankfurt-Bamberg RE. BahnCard gives you a further discount even on Sparpreise. The Saver Fare Finder on the bahn.de site will find the best fare per date - apparently now starting at 69.90 €.


         Travel to Franken by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 03:01:37

Euostar have a sale on at the moment. Selected departures between London and Brussels or Paris are £29 each way.

The biggest issue might be the cost of getting from the North West of England to London.


           Travel to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2019-01-09 07:18:39

Getting £63 for London-Bamberg for random dates in May/June. This is on trainline.eu. 


 Sepp Schmidt of Kathi-Bräu dies  by  Barm on  2019-01-03 07:25:38

Josef “Sepp” Schmidt, the owner of Kathi-Bräu, died on 22nd December at the age of 80.

Can't find a source other than this post on Facebook, unfortunately.
https://www.facebook.com/BambergerBierland/photos/pcb.1182188335278560/1182188021945258/?type=3&theater


   Sepp Schmidt of Kathi-Bräu dies  by  Jason  on  2019-01-03 09:48:46

The long and short of it is that the family will decide whether they will continue the brewery (with the son) or not. 


 Wolframs-Bräu, Wolframs-Eschenbach by  Jürgen Wening on  2019-01-03 06:19:07

Bought beer at the fabulous new little brewery at Wolframs-Eschenbach which is run by the former owner of Brauerei Rothenburg, Andreas Falk. Very good stuff. At the moment there's unfiltrated Kellerbier for sale (top fermented!) but soon the first Pils will also be available.


 Rauchbier at Klosterbrau by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-02 05:50:45

I just saw on their FB page that Klosterbrau is releasing a Rauchbier to be served from the barrel on Jan. 5th and 6th.  I'm very curious to hear how this turns out.  Jason, I don't know if you're back from Jersey in time to try this?


   Rauchbier at Klosterbrau by  Jason on  2019-01-02 05:59:32

Well spotted Mark, I had heard it was coming but good to know exactly when. I am back in Bamberg and will have a try either Saturday or more likely Sunday which is stärkantrinken in Bamberg. We have to drink a beer for every month in 2019 for luck. Strictly speaking bock Bier, but I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. 

10am start in Spezi - will head to Klosterbrau at some point and let you know. 


 Prost Neujahr! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-31 09:31:49

Thought that you might like this from my friend Norbert in deepest Eschawo!

Wo der Stern den Weg uns weist...
...und uralter Kommunbraugeist
des echten Zoigls Herkunft speist,
folgt man der Tradition im Kern
und dem Stern nochmal so gern.



   Prost Neujahr! by  JP on  2018-12-31 11:10:33

Prost, alles Gute and greatest luck for the ride into another unknown!

And THANKS for the help earlier this month. Returned some days ago from 11 days in Franconia and looking to go back around mid February. I've drank somewhat too many beers, yet I enjoyed each one in great company!


 Yuletide and 2019 by  Barry on  2018-12-23 09:04:24

To wish all my friends and fellow forummers a very jolly Yuletide and a happy and peaceful 2019. Here's hoping for many meetings in Franken and many Seidlas!


   Yuletide and 2019 by  Jason on  2018-12-23 11:56:45

Thanks Barry, same to you! I have the feeling ‘many meetings and many seidlas’ is not in any doubt my end. 

Tomorrow I head to Brittany by train with a 10litre barrel of fest bier from Kaiser in Grasmannsdorf, a 5 litre barrel of Spezi Lager and 2 bottles of Herren Pils. It’s almost starting to sound like new lyrics for the 12 days of Christmas. The walking part of the transfer from Paris Est to Paris montparnasse stations will be a challenge. 


     Yuletide and 2019 by  Barry on  2018-12-24 01:07:57

Wow, I thought you must be going by car until I read the last bit! Hope that it all went well - taxi?


   Yuletide and 2019 by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-24 04:42:32

Same to you Barry.

Looking forward to getting back to Franken next year.  Late July is a definite at this point.  Possibly May.
 


 Christmas visits by  Mads Klinkby on  2018-12-19 11:55:13

My yearly christmas escapades will unfold from 27-30 dec. at following venues:

Metzgerbrau
Hartleb
Sternbrau schlusselfeld (New)
Knoblach

These below I have mailed without any answers. Do any of you guys know what they normally do between christmas and N.Y.?:

Krug/Griess
Lowenbrau Buttenheim
Hummel Merkendorf
Hohn Memmelsdorf (Really wanna try their heller bock)
Will schederndorf
Hubner wattendorf.

  Cheers, Mads


   Christmas visits by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-19 12:22:38

Well you won't get a reply from Krug in Geisfeld.  They are closed permanently due to illness as of about a month or two ago.


   Christmas visits by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-12-20 00:05:02

Brauerei Hummel is open. They offer
https://www.brauerei-hummel.de/index.php?top=11

Löwenbräu Buttenheim has closed 
https://loewenbraeu-buttenheim.de/weihnachten/

No information about Höhn in Memmelsdorf, but I believe they have a big hotel the restaurant will be open.


     Christmas visits by  Mads on  2018-12-20 22:37:02

Thanks a lot Gerhard.

Mads



 Brauerei Reuter closed by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-19 03:14:18

Very, very, very, very, very sad news! Brauerei Reuter in Unternbibert stopped brewing at the beginning of December. That means: A fully workable ancient brewery with coolship etc. was closed. The amber coloured Vollbier was very special and unbelievably good, if drunk fast enough not to go bad... that also means, another one in my region is gone. The Wirtshaus at Unternbibert serves Hofmühl now. Gosh.


   Brauerei Reuter closed by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-19 06:54:59

I just phoned them up but could only get hold of the blabla machine. It says, the brewery will be modernised and rebuilt. So, hopefully, we'll get Unternbiberter Bier again in the not so distant future. 


 Stachelbier  by  Jason  on  2018-12-13 08:00:26

I have decided to take a trip to the mountains tomorrow, staying in the excellent Bürgerbräu Bad Reichenhall. It's been snowing the last few days and the forecast is to be sunny so Saturday will see some 'winter wandern'.

First stop tomorrow though (or rather second stop as I'll have a beer in Traunstein) will be Augustiner Brau Salzburg. Right now they have their bockbier which I have never tried and their very seasonal (4 days) Stachelbier which is also new to me. The latter is their maerzen beer, I think a 33cl served in a 50cl glass, and a red hot poker is inserted for a few seconds into the beer (yes, the beer). The result is a maltier, caramalised beer which I reckon is a similar, much less labour intensive, alternative to steinbier. Any residual sugars in the beer caramalise. Whilst the beer is warmed it is only a slight change, so don't confuse this with Glühbier (or the beer warmers in Franken, which are definitely not the same). 

I can quite happily sit on one of the many beerhalls and drink just their maerzen, so having a choice of 3 beers will be a treat. I will report back tomorrow - maybe someone has had stachelbier somewhere? 


   Stachelbier  by  TreinJan on  2018-12-13 11:22:35

Lahnsteiner Bock, at the Festival der Bierkulturen in Köln, a few years back. Liked it (but liked the original as well).


   Stachelbier  by  TomM on  2018-12-14 14:40:32

I lived in Minnesota in the early 90's. Every February, the August Schell Brewery in New Ulm held an outdoor Bock Fest. They would put a red hot poker into your bock beer if you wanted. I didn't know that it was a traditional thing from the old country. It's very cold in Minnesota in the winter. A warm, malty beer was very nice!

https://www.schellsbrewery.com/events/bock-fest/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwClz2pAli0


     Stachelbier  by  Jason on  2018-12-15 09:57:56

I think everything comes from ‘the old country’. Or at least most innovations have been dove before. I should say the beer shouldn’t be warm... just the head is warmed. 

I enjoyed a couple of these yesterday. It was the Bockbier they used which makes sense. As expected the beer was maltier and somewhat caramelised (in a subtle way) but also the bitterness was extenuated. Anyone who cooks with beer knows that happens. 

The regular bock was less bitter - a fantastic drop I must say, much better than most Bamberg bocks, benefitting from a rich malt body and not  at all sweet. Augustiner remains one of the finest drinking establishments in the world. I’m going back now for round 2. 


       Stachelbier  by  Mike on  2018-12-17 02:37:42

Was that Augustiner in Salzburg? If so, I agree with you wholeheartedly.


         Stachelbier  by  Jason  on  2018-12-17 06:04:57

Yes indeed. I spent 3 very pleasant evenings there and on the 3rd night shared a table coincidentily with a group of Franconians from Erlangen area who spend every 3rd Advent there. They invited me on their fast train back and also to come along next year. 

Gave me an extra hour of drinking - bonus!


       Stachelbier  by  AndyH on  2018-12-17 04:20:02

Augustiner salzburg is amazing!

Brauhaus Gusswerk, near salzburg, makes a Steinbier.


   Stachelbier  by  Andrew H on  2018-12-19 07:46:50

It sounds a great trip, I am very envious. Enjoy! Young man.


   Stachelbier  by  Andrew H on  2018-12-19 07:46:50

It sounds a great trip, I am very envious. Enjoy! Young man.


 FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-11 20:17:08

My wife and I are thinking about a month in Bamberg, maybe starting in mid-September 2019 until mid-October.
Could I get some lodging suggestions?
I think Barry has a place East of the Bahnhof he likes, but I couldn't find it for some reason.
Would consider a second bedroom if not too much more, for potential visitors.
I've been to Bamberg on bier trips at least six times, so this is not an uninformed thought!

Thanks !

[ What ever happened to the place just across the street from Klosterbräu?
It appeared it was a very reasonably priced hotel, but it was not available (undergoing renovation?) in 2018.) ]

 


   FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-12 00:37:26

http://www.fewo-wachsbleiche.de/

Weve stayed here for the last 8 or so years. Just behind the Fassla. Both fewos are 2 bedroom, downstairs one is a bit nicer. Lovely hosts. 

Ive also stayed at https://www.urlaubinbamberg.de/ fewo Albert. I believe a number of forum members have used this one. 


   FeWo recommendations by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-12-12 03:12:06

As a local I have not personal experience, but guests of the Café Abseits have recommended:
http://visitbamberg.de/engl/index_e.htm
east of the Bahnhof.


   FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-12 09:24:23

I had to think where east of the bahnhof is!  To be honest, I rarely stay in Bamberg now - in November, I stayed in Frank's place by Sandstrasse, which is very convenient for Schlenkerla and the city in general.  Other than that, I can't remember the last time I stayed in the town, preferring to stay in the little towns that dot Franken, specially ones near the rail line.  It's so easy to get into town from that situation and it's much cheaper.

Bamberg isn't really a late night destination (for me anyway, others may differ!) and the trains run fairly late.  


     FeWo recommendations by  Jason  on  2018-12-13 01:54:22

Have to disagree here. There is very little appeal for people who want to visit Bamberg to stay in the stix. Bamberg IS a late night destination (others certainly will differ) and by contrast, life in the villages shuts down at 10pm latest. Even when here you're a rare visitor to Bamberg - constantly shuttling back and forth with trains isn't going to appeal to most visitors who do wish to visit most days. Plus if I really wanted to save money I probably wouldn't go on holiday in the first place. 

I know it suits your lifestyle, budget and preferences, but you know that they are not going to be shared by most visitors. 


       FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 04:41:02

Barry, I can't help but think that you meant to say that you're not a late night person rather than Bamberg is not a late night destination.  Because the latter certainly is not true and that's been well chronicled on this forum over the years.  In fact, over the years since I've been visiting Bamberg has only grown as a late night destination with more late night bars than ever before.  It's even gained some renown for it's cocktail bars not just beer.  Not that I care much about that but other visitors (like my friend Ingmar) and plenty of locals seem to dig it.  

Anyhow it remains for me the best base of operations in Franken and I don't see that changing anytime soon.  There is plenty to do at night even after the breweries closed for those that want to carry on with plenty of good beer to be had.  Rotenschild, Catwheezle, Stohrenkeller, Am Galerie, Torschuster, Der Pelikan, Der Schwarze Shapf, the place with the burgers, places that Jason has shown me that I can't remember the name but could find in a fog, and on and on and on.

 


         FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 04:42:15

.... and forgot to mention but should have Cafe Abseits.
 


           FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-13 08:50:46

Personally, Id always stay in Bamberg, but then Im a city guy. What I love is a hard day out in the wilds of Franconia, then a couple of nightcaps somewhere in Bamberg. 


     FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-13 09:49:15

I think that I'm being tracked by the Bamberg Tourism Politzei - I'm going to be careful going to the Red Lion on this dark night.

I think that you chaps seem to have missed my rider:

 for me anyway, others may differ!

I put that in because I knew that world would descend on my poor head   I'm really surprised at your comment, Mark, you must recall my last really late night in Bamberg?  (All day hike, Memmelsdorf Strassefest, Catweazle, carried home, Judenstrasse, nasty wooden staircase, blood pouring from shin - oh no, you were fast asleep on the couch by that time!).  Not to mention Rotenschild a few weeks ago, Jason, earnest 'discussions' about basket ball, etc.

Happy really to leave it to the youth!

 


       FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 11:14:57

Too funny.

Well I'm glad you lived to tell the tale Barry.  I thought I would need a cattle prod to wake you (and Bill actually) the next morning errr I mean afternoon.  

Enjoy the Red Lion.  


         FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-14 05:04:55

Thanks but only just survived.  Moral of the story: don't try to compete with the 'big' boys - day or night!

It was as excellent as usual, with 'Old Trip' in good form.. Howeverr, we started with a couple in my new local 'The Black Cloak', which Maps tell me is 450 feet (120 meteres?) from my front door.  Too near for safety.  They've got a cute little one barrel mini-brewery in which they brew their standard session pale ale at 3.7% but very nice and tasty.  Then two more handpumps, which usually feature Heavy Industry beer (that's where the owners come from).  My US-friends would feel at home because it's really designed like a minature US-pub with a wall full of keg taps - looks quite ornate, even if I won't be trying them!

They also brew a bright beer i.e. fermetned and then stored in tanks under CO2 - not filtered and strong enough at 5.7%.  I tried a sample and it was quite tasty but oh so fizzy!  The decour is unfussy but pleasant and the owners are very friendly and chatty.  An excellent acquisition for the Bay and Colwyn's East End.


     FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-17 07:51:08

Thanks for the recommendations !

Barry, I may have recalled your name in error; I know someone was talking about  a place near a church East of the Bahnhof!  I think it's the one Gerhard mentioned in this thread (St. Henry's Corner).

 


       FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-17 09:42:16

Is that out in Wunderberg? Or is my sense of direction completely shot?


         FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-17 09:51:00

It's about 700 meters NE of the Bahnhof (isn't Wunderberg down by Mahr's?).


           FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-18 01:11:20

Yes, so in the opposite direction to Wunderberg(where there is a big church). Guess there are plenty of churches in Bamberg!


       FeWo recommendations by  gavin on  2018-12-17 22:45:37

hey carl, i was the one to recommend this great place , have been a very regular visiter to this fewo since 2006. Have become great friends with the owners, they are wonderful people.
http://www.visitbamberg.de/engl/index_e.htm. please give then a call with any questions they speak perfect english.


   FeWo recommendations for the whole country by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-01 05:56:29

Which website's the best? A couple I've used recently just ended up pointing me to AirBnB. Is that the new Thing now?

I'm suddenly tired of the place I've been staying in Schin op Geul, Limburg, NL, though it is cheap at 35 Eur a night, considering it's new and modern, if that's your thing. If it weren't the dead of winter, it'd be different, as Mrs was there in the summer and said it was full of wonderful vacationing Dutch.


 Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 01:55:06

Andreas Falk, formerly owner of Brauhaus Rothenburg o. d. T., has opened a new brewery plus Wirtshaus in Wolframs-Eschenbach, just 8 km away from my home village. It's called Wolframs-Bräu. I'm going to visit it this week and will write a short report.

A new one in Mittelfranken - that's just great! 


   Very good news - new brewery! by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 02:33:11

Very good news indeed Juergen! Especially the Wirtshaus, that's an exception. Look forward to hearing the report and will try and get down there soon if it's positive!


     Very good news - new brewery! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 02:49:40

Oh goody, another one to view.  Hope it's better than the other Wolfram (Eschawo)!


       Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 03:35:15

I guess the beers will be similar to those formerly brewed in Rothenburg. And they were fine! Well, and the Central Franconian Wolframs-Eschenbach is the birthplace of the famous medieval minnesinger Wolfram von Eschenbach. Yes, he was Franconian, too! 


         Very good news - new brewery! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 05:54:33

Wasn't every great historical figure from Franconia? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously, I've just looked the place up on Google maps and scanned through the photo's.  Suddenly, I feel an attack of memory coming on!  Didn't we go through there on that day out when we went down to Wettelsheimer Keller? 

 


           Very good news - new brewery! by  pivnizub on  2018-12-03 09:19:31

There was 'til 2005 a brewery called  "Gentner-Bräu" in Wolframs-Eschenbach... Does anybody know, if the old brewery will be "reanimated" now?


             Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-04 00:58:29

It won't. The building's still there but with a huge hole in the wall where the equipment was brought out. 


 Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-12-02 02:16:16

Yesterday morning I had the oportunity to visit Löwenbräu in Buttenhiem. It's been years since i've been in the tap. The beer was fine, better than I've had it outside the tap but still there are many better examples. 

St. Georgen Brau pub is closed until they find a new tenant. 

Today i'm going to Brauerei Martin in Schonungen. One of those much better than Löwenbräu. 


   Buttenheim by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 01:52:03

Martin in Schonungen is great. Have a Spezial on me, please!


     Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 02:34:45

I did indeed, very nice dunkler doppelbock too. 

The beer garden in summer is one of the nicest anywhere - this brewery comes highly recommended with good train/bus (or walk) connections. 


       Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 02:53:10

Does this hide under another name/place, as I can't find it in the directory?  Maybe I'm just being a bit thick (no comments please).


         Brauerei Martin by  moleha4 on  2018-12-03 03:30:31

Brauerei Martin is listed under Hausen-Schonungen.


           Brauerei Martin by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 05:59:06

Gosh, I've even been there - with Juergen, of course!

I'm going to have to ry to list where I've been and not been - getting confused in my dotage.
 


       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Barm on  2018-12-03 02:58:01

Good train/bus connections? I must have missed those. One bus every hour and a half or something, isn’t it?
Is there a bigger beer garden out the back? I have only been in the Stube.


         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 03:17:03

Yes, you must have. Train/Bus connections every hour and the two are connected so the journey time is 1hr - 1hr10. In Franconia, that's generally a good connection, particularly when you're on holiday and you're flexible. 

If you look at the images on their website you'll see the garden at the back. 


         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mike on  2018-12-03 04:24:21

Look at bus line 71. Seems to run more often.


           Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-04 05:02:37

Is this out of the range of the VGN? Surely doesnt extend as far out as Schweinfurt?


             Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-04 05:17:04

The last station on that line in the VGN is Oberhaid. You could use a Bayern-ticket.


               Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-04 07:03:58

Thanks Jan, thought it was out of range. 


                 Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-05 01:15:33

Not 'out of range' John :) There is something called the 'Franken Hopper Ticket' actually which makes the return journey cheaper, c. EUR11,80 for 1 return or EUR23,60 for 2 return. Of course this doesn't include the bus so a Bayern ticket is probably more convenient and you can visit Goeller in Zeil (and Oberhaid!!!)f you wish or get the Bayern Karte on the Saturday and then use for something else on the Sunday.

You're well aware of all the options so not sure why i'm giving you the detail, but I recommend a visit in any case, especially in good weather. 


                   Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-05 01:25:43

Hi Jason,
   Didnt know about the 'Franken Hopper', though as you say, the weekend Bayern Ticket would be better. Suppose Ill have to go to Oberhaid one day.....


                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-05 03:45:17

No... you really don't. Although JUST in case it's improved I'd rather someone else took one for the team than me. I've done my time. 

Though I've heard Mark and Andrew are fans...


                       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-05 11:01:09

Andy is a much bigger fan of Oberhaid than me.  He even drank my seidla before I had a chance to savor it.
 


                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-05 11:02:40

John if you do go to Oberhaid I recommend watching the movie Deliverance first to get you in the mood.
 


                   Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-05 03:39:51

BayernTicket weekend?


                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 04:21:20

Possibly means the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket?

The only difference in the 
Länder-Ticket at the weekend is that you can travel before 9am (AFAIK).


                       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-05 05:00:25

SWT is also a one day ticket (saturday OR sunday). Maybe the confusion is with the VGN Tageskarte.


                         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 06:05:18

Maybe


                           Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-05 08:04:05

S-W ticket is for the whole country is it not? Only on regional trains, of course and is for Saturday OR Sunday, but not both. Same with Bayern ticket, but just Bayern. VGN weekend ticket is Saturday and Sunday. Fantastic value.


                             Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason on  2018-12-06 05:28:56

Correct, my mistake getting them muddled up. 


   Buttenheim by  Nick B. (formerly in Erlangen) on  2019-02-05 02:20:51

When was the last time people debated whether the beer's the same there as in the Keller? I've forgotten whether anyone ever convinced me that the right answer was right.

Lovely tavern IAC.


     Buttenheim by  AndyH on  2019-02-05 02:52:50

On my two visits to Buttenheim I've never managed to make it to the keller. Still managed to visit when the tavern was open on the first occasion and loved it. The tap on the wall for the beer, the seidlas with metal lids, great.


 Klosterbraue  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 04:41:56

I refer to our estemmed colleague Barry's comments regarding his Braunbier at Klosterbraeu a few weeks ago. I don't dispute his experience, just reflecting my own. 

I did the underground Keller tour in Bamberg last week, under the Stephensberg. It was interesting if a little boring when you already know a lot of the beer history (it was focussed on the Bamberg brewing tradition). Anyway, afterwards we went to eat at Klosterbraue. The Croatian Igor was behind the taps and as usual his tapping was exemplary. The Kellerbier was very very good, as was the bockbier. Overall a very positive drinking experience. 

I was talking with Florian Merz on Wednesday and he said that all the beers are brewed at Klosterbrau... he asked the brewer himself. I've heard equally credible opinions to the contrary so I'm none the wiser really. 

Finally, yesterday a friend had A NEW RAUCHBIER that Klosterbrau have brewed from the tanks. It will be ready in 14 days - a very positive development, albeit perhaps commercially driven in an attempt to lure some customers away from Schlenkerla and cash in on the association of Bamberg with rauchbier. 

I will report back when I have tried it. But the take over by Kaiserdom is cautiously looking positive, albeit a shame they couldn't do this as an independant brewery. 


   Klosterbraeu  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 04:44:05

Sorry, predictive text... Klosterbraeu 


   Klosterbraue  by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-23 08:57:09

I am at Klosterbräu now. The Kellerbier has good flavor, but the body is thin.  The Bockbier is good, typical maltiness with light sweetness.

i asked about a Rauchbier, but they said they don’t have one.

The food menu is mere shadow of its former glory.


     Klosterbraue  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 10:40:22

I wrote that the rauchbier won’t be ready for 14 days. 


       Klosterbraue  by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-24 03:34:19

Interesting comments from my equally estemmed colleagues!

However, I was talking about the Braunbier, which neither Jason (or Jimbo) sampled.

   


     Klosterbraue  by  AndyH on  2018-12-04 05:55:27

I won't be viviting again until October next year. However, I've read that the Kellerbier is significantly different enough from the rest of the Kaiserdom Kellerbiere to indicate that it is not brewed at Kaiserdom?

No doubt the truth will out if it is.


 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-20 15:23:46

First, thank you - this board is a great resource! I scrolled through posts of several years and hope you might have further recommendations. First Franken trip for me, having grown up in northern Germany but living abroad since more than a decade.
I'm working in a small brewery abroad and during a trip some time back had an memorable Monchsambacher from Anstich, that convinced me to finally visit Franken. Interested in the beers, peculiar breweries and brewing installlations but also the local drinking culture. Love to meet for a beer if some of you are around!

Below is an ambitious outline to deviate from spontaenously.
Of couse keeping in mind alcohol levels ect.

Q:
I'm especially looking for Anstichs, any near garantees?
Breweries/pubs/beers I missed/you highly recommend? Especialy Frankische Schweiz?
Do any breweries require reservation to buy bottles?
Would breweries fill clean kegs if I show up with them?
Who are the extravagant breweries in Franken?
Recommendation for CZ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

DECEMBER 14 - DECEMBER 24
Travel by car & road bicycle

DEC 14 (Friday)
--- Seinsheimer Kellerbraeu
--- Brauerei Zehender (Bockbieranstich!)
    
DEC 15 (Saturday)
--- Hartleb
--- Scharpf
--- Metzgerbraeu
--- Knoblauch

DEC 16 (Sunday)
--- Griess
--- Krug Geisfeld
--- Liebert
--- Roppelt
--- Witzgall
--- Rittmayer

DEC 17 (Monday)
--- BAMBERG
--- Spezial, Schlenkerla, Mahrs, Abseits, ...

DEC 18 (Tuesday)
--- Roppelt (Hausbrauerfass!)
--- Gradl
--- Heckel
--- Zehender (visit?)
--- Gaenstaeller (visit?)

DEC 19 (Wednesday)
or DEC 20 (Thursday)
--- PLSEN (suggestions?)
--- Pivnice Koutské Pivo
--- Pivovar Modrá Hvězda
--- Plzeňský Prazdroj

DEC 21 (Friday)
--- Gloser, Windischeschenbach  
--- Bahler, Windischeschenbach  
--- possible to arrange visits in Neuhaus, Falkenberg, Mitterteich?

DEC 22
--- Ohne Bedenken, Leipzig (?)
--- Bayrischer Bahnhof, Leipzig (?)
--- or return to Franconia (?)

DEC 23
--- Dusseldorf (?)

--------------------------------
Thank you!


   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason  on  2018-11-21 03:18:14

Hello JP, welcome to the Forum proper. You've asked for a lot of info and i will try my best to help you. I am also happy to meet for a beer when you're here; i will probably be at the Bockbieranstich in Moenchsambach. 

Your questions:

I'm especially looking for Anstichs, any near garantees?
I presume you're referring to bockbier, which means no, you only have Moenchsambach which is the last of the BBA before next September as far as I know. 
Breweries/pubs/beers I missed/you highly recommend? Especialy Frankische Schweiz?
This is a huge question. You have mentioned Heckel, i would add Held Brau not far off and, closer to Bamberg, Foerst in Druegendorf. Reichhold, Hoechstahl. There are others but I think you have enough. 
Do any breweries require reservation to buy bottles?
No, but you may find if you're not known they won't sell you the case as they don't think they'll get it back. The supermarkets have a good selection by the case.
Would breweries fill clean kegs if I show up with them?
I would just email them before and ask. If they have time and are in a good mood, you might, but it's not something I've ever done
Who are the extravagant breweries in Franken?
I'm not sure what you mean by extravagent. Some would say Heckel is extravagent whereas in reality it's just very quaint and traditional. Do you mean are they brewing 'out there' beers, are they only open on a full moon or what ;) ??
Recommendation for CZ?
Go. You need a month. Another huge question. 


On your itinerary:

First, be sure to check opening times and, if possible, call in advance if you're going out of your way. Krug in Geisfeld is now closed. Your Tuesday 18.12 looks hectic, going to Heckel and Moenchsambach in the same day is ambitious, even with a car, then remember both breweries' beers (Lager at M'bach) are nudging 6% so driving is not a good idea. I see it looks like you'll be driving on a few days - I don't judge but it's a risk. Also cycling in December could be nasty but then maybe you've got all the gear!

Re Gaenstaller, I find Andy to be too nice to say no, and almost everyday i imagine a line of well meaning tourists that must cause huge disruption to his job. Just my feeling, but if you know him, drop him a line. If you don't drop him a line :) 

Tell you what, if you meet me at Moenchsambach on Friday 14th December I would be happy to talk you through your plans. There is a bus from Bamberg mid afternoon. 

Bottom line, for a first visit you're doing a lot. I would say too much, just a personal feeling. If you want to tick, then fine, (i suspect not) but if you want to understand culture and get a feeling for this brewing rich region (I suspect yes), then I would go quality not quantity; yes breweries are closing but not that fast - they'll be there next time. And give time to Bamberg, it's a beautiful city and deserves some time outside of the breweries to explore it's history and culture. 


     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-21 06:43:59

On 30. Nov. is Bockbieranstich at Sambach. I never tried the Bock up to now but will probably visit the brewery that day as I really love their regular Lager. If someone wants to show up...


       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason on  2018-11-21 14:24:37

I may just do that... their beers are excellent I must say and it’s on my way home from work! No excuses :) 


         10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-22 00:43:25

Jason, I've been there yesterday. All the entries in the local Bockbier calendars are wrong. The Anstich is tomorrow already. 23rd of Nov. Unfortunately that's my birthday, so no way for me. A shame. 


           10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-11-22 12:06:26

Tomorrow is my birthday too and I’m visiting breweries.  It’s no excuse. 


             10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason on  2018-11-23 02:38:25

Haha, happy birthday both. It’s not my birthday but I’m also going to visit breweries! 


               10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-23 04:22:22

Thank you, Jason! I've got Hennemann Lager, Bräuwerck Tagwerck (Helles Lager) and Gundel Zwickelt's at home. Will be a nice wee celebration... ;-)


                 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-23 04:23:03

https://www.braeuwerck.de/brauerei.php?id=53

Good stuff!


                 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry on  2018-11-24 06:08:38

Sounds excellent.  But tell me, Gundel, I think that we went there, as you were taking bottles back.  The Stube was closed but we sat in the nice garden in the sunshine and drank from bottles bought in the brewery (you had anticpated and brought glasses!).  Quite a hoppy beer, I seem to recall.

Hennemann, presumably Sambach?  If so, went with Nick.  Quite an interesting range of beers, a little bit different.  Braeuwerk, Drossendorf?  Don't know at all, not in Fred's directory of breweries?

Enjoy (as if you won't!).


                   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  moleha4 on  2018-11-26 00:12:17

I believe that the Braeuwerk referred to is in Neudrossenfeld, and is listed. 


                   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-26 07:22:56

You remember Gundel right, Barry. We were sitting near the graveyard in the sun. Hennemann Sambach, right, and Bräuwerck Neudrossenfeld. 


                     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-26 09:32:38

It was a lovely day!

The Neudrossendorf fooled me, as I was looking for Drossendorf.


     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-26 16:50:33

Thank you, Jason. This were great informations. Looking forward to meet. (i'm not on fb, but hope to arrange something via mail soon!).Folowing yr comments I also decided to return for CZ next year instead and spread the visits over the extra days. Is my email visible in the forums? Please write me a short message!!

About the Anstichs; I might have wrongly assume that Franconcian bar culture might be very subdued at this time of the year and a majority of breweries would be switching to kegs for their normal offerings.

Extravagant may well be quaint and traditional! De Dolle would likelt be my extravagant referential point for belgian brewing.

are there some bars in franconia that have a varied selection of locall breweries available? since my originial post I stumbled over Stoerenkeller and thought to add Held-Braus, Wirtshaus Weiglathal and Prechtl.

Does anyone know contact information to visit the different Zoigl brewers (during their off times - if just for a brief exchange/purchase of bottles/party kegs)?
 


       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry on  2018-11-27 01:02:02

Go to zoiglbier.de/die-brauer where you can find the contact details for every Echte Zoigl brewery. But remember that these people are not full time brewers and might be difficult to contact at times.


       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason  on  2018-11-27 01:03:02

Hi JP, Fred will arrange email exchange. 

Regarding Anstichs: So you're referring to Bayersicher Anstich (BA)... why would Franconian beer culture be subdued at this time of year? It's still very busy, tourists don't sustain it. Downtime as such is January, Febuary and March when tourist levels are low, people are detoxing and the students are away. Unfortunately, many places have switched from BA to keg dispense, especially in Bamberg, where only Schlenkerla dispenses from gravity. Spezial (all) and Keesmann beer (the pils only i think) come from the lager tanks, which is fine. The country breweries are mixed, but I would say BA is rarer these days, especially outside of keller season. 

There are no extravagent breweries compared with De Dolle. There are a few craft breweries but they aren't really near Bamberg, except perhaps Binkert in Breitengussbach which has a porter, pale ale and other non traditional Franconian fare (though nothing mindblowing if you're into modern styles). 

In terms of bars, the famous one is Cafe Abseits in Bamberg. There are also other pubs that have maybe 3 or 4 beers but I wouldn't expect anything like there is in craft beer scenes elsewhere. Beer here is best drunk fresh as the source. Stoehrenkeller is fine, but I'm not a frequent visitor, which may tell you something. Uebelhack (weiglathal) has it's beer brewed elsewhere and they lager it (I understand). 

Re Zoigl: you will not be able to get any Zoigl from families whose stub'n aren't open at that time. They really only brew enough for their pub and as far as I know don't sell barrels or bottles to the public. You can take a syphon and they'll gladly fill it (when open). To be honest, zoigl bier is very much an enigma - it can be very good, but often average, the quality certainly lifted by the experience of the stub'n and their various characters. But the beer doesn't benefit from being taken away, I've done it a few times and it really dies after a few hours in a bottle. This goes for most breweries, just focus on enjoying the experience as a whole; the beers in isolation aren't going to amaze (aside from a few) but the experience as a whole is what elevates them. 


         10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-27 05:54:39

Sorry to contradict but I think that some Zoigl stub'e owners might oblige, if possible, in filling a container with Zoigl but you will have to fit in with them.

However, I totally agree with Jason that it really isn't worthwhile.  Jason's recent experience was with a really excellent Zoigl - at the Zoiglstub'n - but which was pretty dead when he tried it a few days later.  OTOH, a friend of mine reasonably regularly takes Zoigl back with him to the Erzgebirge and says that it is ok for a few days.  It's your choice but I agree with Jason, just go and enjoy what's on offer.  It's tricky because you can only catch 2 or 3 places in one weekend visit, which is what led us into going for long periods - 4 - 8 weeks!


           10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-27 15:26:53

Wonderful, this is far more information than necessary to have a good time! The guidance regarding BA was exactly what I was after, thanks.

I'm not looking for anything craft-related, rather the opposite. And I'm hopeful that the variety of breweries and their beers are infusing a locality and lens absent in other current brewing communities.

Will write you an email in the coming days, Jason! Looking forward to meet at the Zehender Anstich.
Also if anyone else would be up to share a beer let me know. I'll share a more up-to-date itinerary in the coming week.


 I am in Bamberg! by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 08:06:06




   I am in Bamberg! by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 08:08:56

I arrived by train at 3 pm, settled into my room, bought a Mobi Card for the week, and then went to Spezial for my first beer at 4:45 pm.  Great to be back!!


     Spezial Bockbier by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 09:14:07

The Spezial Bockbier has a hint of cocoa from the malt. Smooth and süffig. It has been many years since I had their Bock.


       Spezial Bockbier by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 09:59:49

Great Jim, sorry to have missed you.  Enjoy yourself (as if you won't!).


     Pizzini by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 14:51:15

when the hell did Pizzini get taken over by only 20-25 year old customers?


       Pizzini by  Jason on  2018-11-20 23:16:38

Oh yeah that happened around 2 years ago, when old Wally passed away. For me it’s kinda ruined, not so much the younger crowd but the incessant live music nights almost everyday. 

It used to be a haven of quiet conversation late on a weekend night but now it’s just like any other venue. Shame, but it certainly remains popular so not everyone feels the same. Personally I just want some balance, nowt wrong with music, just not 4/6 nights a week. 


 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  FredW on  2018-11-16 16:09:29

Somebody just brought to my attention that both Google Maps and Trip Advisor show the Gastätte as permenently closed. Still looks like it is open on their Facebook page but their website doesn't  doesn't mention the Gastätte, just the Keller.

Did I miss something in one of my drunken stupors smiley


   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-11-17 04:09:06

For another beer tourist who organises beer tours I have called end of October the brewery. They said, the Gaststätte is closed temporarily. They are looking for a tenant,


     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-17 08:42:59

The Gaststätte is closed since this year's spring, during summer their beautiful Keller (a Keller with a view...;-)) was still open. Better try to catch a beer at the gorgeous Löwenbräu! But it could become difficult, the place is nearly always "sold out"...


       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-17 10:09:29

I play football in gunzendorf. I don't want to see any brewery or pub close. But I drink a lot of loewenbrau in the pub in gunzendorf and a lot of st Georgen in the Sport heim. Loewenbraeu is frankly terrible. St G helles is fine but the U is worse. 

Both breweries are very poor. 


         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry on  2018-11-17 12:50:15

Sad and surprised about Loewen, I drank a fair bit of it when we stayed in Buttenheim and liked it. It was also good in the Keller, whereas St Georgen was bad everywhere!


           St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-17 15:39:52

De gustibus non est disputandum! ;-) I Think there is a big difference between the Loewenbräu beers served anywhere and served right at the source. Worth a try! Try it...!


             St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-19 01:48:04

It has been a while since I visited the brewery. But the beers I've had recently were served direct from the barrel - sure that's not a sure sign of freshness but it negates the possibility of dirty lines being an issue. I saw the beer being poured at the Kaerwa and it didn't look great to be honest. 

Loewenbraeu used to be one of my favourites some years' ago. 


               St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-19 12:12:38

Interesting. It makes me wonder what the faults are with the beers from these two breweries. Diacetyl? DMS? Unbalanced? Bland? Astringent? Freshness problems. All of the above? Something else?


                 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barm on  2018-11-19 13:21:24

I think Jason is just spoilt for choice.


                   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-19 16:07:02

To be clear, I am not questioning anyone's opinion. I am just interested in how the opinion was arrived at.

A beer enthusiast living in Franken is a great resource.


                     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-20 06:42:15

In respnse to the 'spoilt for choice' comment, I could quite easily say that those that visit Franken a few times of year put on their rose tinted glasses and, in holiday mode, can be very easily satisfied by frankly inferior products. And as a former 'tourist', I know exactly what it's like - maybe my memories of Loewnebraue are just that. Drinking beer regularly gives you a more balanced viewpoint and the most consistent breweries stand out like a sore thumb, good or bad. Plus I'm not looking for a great beer everytime - just one that ticks the basic boxes. Anything better is great, but not every beer needs to be a masterpiece. 

Tom - I really don't want to overcomplicate this, partly because I'm not an expert in beer faults, I just know what's good and what isn't. I have had a number of Loewenbraue beers from the barrel these past months and they just tasted lifeless, lacking in flavour and a bit like wet cardboard (oxidation). Not Diacytel - might actually make it taste of something. The biggest compliement would be: tastless. Now I may have had a second, so it's not necessarily bad, just 'meh'. This is almost worse, because clearly there is little enthusiasm for flavour somewhere. 

I will caveat again that I haven't drunk it fresh at the brewery - i will make a point to stop off soon and report back. I'm not optimistic though. 

St Georgen Brau used to be quite good too, but the U is most certainly a mess these days. We have the Helles at football and it's ok. 

For balance, tonight I will be making my usual Tuesday trip to Doerfleins, where, as usual the beer will be fantastic. 

 


                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 10:08:50

It's really hard to judge beers on an occasional visit, as you say.  I enjoyed Loewenbraue when I stayed in Buttenheim for a couple of weeks, both in the Keller and the Stube.  But I don't think it was great, just enjoyable on the occasion.  Certainly not a patch on Eichorn, where the Dunkel is adorable - too adorable!

St Georgen doesn't bare thinking about.  On my last visit to the Keller with Andrew, it was bad enough for us to throw away.  A rare sight with parsimonious pensioners!  Mind you, the Helles in Drosendorf was as bad but I struggled through it under the eyes of the owner!


                         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-20 11:05:31

And yet my last visit to Göller found the beer to be fine. Nothing special but certainly passable. 

Thats another point; even living here there will always be unexplained inconsistencies. 


                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-21 04:07:37

Thanks for the reply, Jason. Sort of sounds like old stock or too much oxygen uptake before/during kegging.

When I went to Franken for the first time I really enjoyed the beers and brauereigaststätte so much so that I wanted to come back as often as I could. On the other hand, I was often surprised at the quality of some of the beer I was served. Some beers, often labeled Hell(es), had little more character than you would find in a typical mass-produced lager as found in the US or the UK. Other beers were downright foul tasting, exhibiting signs of rampant infection. It was really a bit hit and miss, maybe more than you would expect condsidering the reputation of Bayern beers

I haven't been back in so long now that I wouldn't hazard an opinion on indivual breweries. Was hoping to go this autumn but employment and health difficulties have got in the way. Maybe 2019...


                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  AndyH on  2018-12-04 06:04:19

Doerfleins was the standout beer of my last visit to Franken.

So was the food, the menu said, "Heute Schauferla!"


               St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-19 22:44:15

Löwenbräu is still one of my favourites, but maybe it tastes better at the source, because the pub is just great. I have to admit, that Lieberth and Witzgall are surely better, IMHO the best beers You can get in Franconia...


                 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-20 06:51:11

Witzgall is very good, wouldn't disagree with that. But there are better, to my taste, niether would be in my top 10, not that it is important to anyone else but me. 

Interesting point: I drink a lot of Moenchsambacher in Rotenschild in Bamberg, served BA. It's never as good as in the brewery, and it's not just the atmosphere. Beer is always better at source, it's not meant to be put in a lorry and driven around etc etc. 


                   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 10:10:22

I think I remember drinking the Moenchsambacher in Rotenschild recently - vaguely.  It was ok, good enough to inspire an argument about basketball!


                     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-20 11:12:24

Yeah it was a bit oxidized on your visit. Still, perfectly enjoyable. 

Ps. It was a discussion


                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Mark Andersen on  2018-11-20 11:35:06

Let me guess .... Barry is against Basketball?

Anyhow, everytime I've had Moenchsambacher at Rotenschild it's been excellent and yes even better at the brewery.  Although maybe better just because the place is fantastic.
 


                         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 12:09:33

Not against basketball, just don't particularly like to watch it - probably better to play - if you're seven feet tall!  But, like with beer, there's room for all shapes and sizes.

And I do recall that the Moenchsambacher was pretty decent; it's just that it followed a lot of others.


 Fred by  TreinJan on  2018-11-14 03:19:31

It's Fred's birthday today, so here goes: Happy/hoppy birthday to you!


   Fred by  Barm on  2018-11-14 04:21:35

Happy birthday. I am honoured to have shared beers with Fred in three different cities, here’s to the next time, whenever it is.


     Fred by  pivnizub on  2018-11-14 13:43:24

Glad to have met You this year in Duesseldorf with a Sticke... Congrats!!!


       Meeting by  FredW on  2018-11-14 15:07:33

It was great to finally meet you in person after all these years.

I hope next time we have more time so you can educate me on Czech beer...


   Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-14 20:22:26

Thanks the greeting and I hope to be sharing beers with you again soon (and Jan, I will be in Amsterdam for a week next month, plus the Kerstbierfest in Essen)


     Thanks by  TreinJan on  2018-11-15 00:18:24

Will be in Essen on the sunday. When are you in A'dam?


       Thanks by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-15 02:27:07

Did it on facebook already, do it again here: Happy Birthday, Fred


         Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-15 20:16:42

Thanks twice smiley


       Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-15 20:16:25

I'll be in A'dam Dec 4-11, then I head to Antwerp. I'll be both days at Essen (just finished iPhone and Android apps for the festival)


 Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-05 01:06:45

Just eating my breakfast porridge, then off to Franken for a week!

Not been in the autumn/winter for many years but the forecast is for a heatwave - well, a mild spell.


   Off to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-11-05 15:10:03

Enjoy, Barry, the beer is definitely better than Bangkok!


     Off to Franken by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-05 21:10:57

Sorry we will miss each other in Germany.  Have fun! 


   Off to Franken by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-06 01:06:10

When will you leave, Barry? Hope to get the opportunity to meet you - maybe for a Seidla or two at Neuhaus/Pegnitz?


     Off to Franken by  Barry on  2018-11-06 08:00:58

Hi juergen here now, just enjoyed a Seidla or two with Frank in Schlenkerla. I go back next Monday, until then, free as a bird, more or less. Maybe we could meet en route to Neuhaus?


       Off to Franken by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-06 23:59:58

That's going to be difficult. I'm on an outdoor camp in the Steigerwald with my kids until Friday, then fully booked out for the weekend. Monday would be okay, but that's your leaving day.
 


         Off to Franken by  Barry on  2018-11-07 02:47:24

That's no problem, I'll be here in the spring (if not before!), So we can work something out then. Enjoy your camping - you have good weather.


           Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-13 02:06:46

So, back from Franken - kitchen renovation still ongoing, house still a building site!

A very nice week, thanks Frank (even though you're probably not reading this!) for being a good host and Jason for being a good companion for so much of the time.  I'm still recovering - haven't not yet learned that I can't drink toe to toe with younger people nowadays!

Hard to know what to say, as I can't think of anything adventurous or different done during the week.  No, just the same boring trips around the same old beautiful places, including Markendorf (couple of times, sorry about the football result, Jason), Dorfleins (the Dunkel was so more-ish) and, of course, Forcheim (what trip to Franken could possible leave out Neder!).  I did venture into Mahrs for first time for maybe four years,  Same old lovely Schwemme but the U just a pale carbonated version of its former self.  Ditto visit to Klosterbraue - what is there not to like about this place: a proper Schwemme (even with seats, Mahrs take note), very pleasant inside but, oh, I forgot the Braunbier.  At first so fizzy that I was burping after three mouthfuls, then, after leaving for a time and a bit of swirling around, flat, flat, flat, and as bland and sweet as can be.  Probably another four years (if ever) I return to either.

What else, well I learned a bit more about Schafkopf - actually enough to persuade me never to get into a game where there's money involved (more thanks to JW) - drank a lot more than I should have but had a thoroughly good time and met some lovely people.  What more can you ask?

 


             Off to Franken by  Jason  on  2018-11-13 05:45:51

Nice report Barry, if it makes you feel any better, I am also still recovering. Sunday sessions are a very nice way to spend the day but they are not the best preparation for the working week. 

 


               Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-13 07:10:02

It was an interesting day.  And also not the best preparation for my 11-hour cycle of walking, waiting, trains and planes.  But we both made it - somehow.


 Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Bierbus on  2018-10-30 06:48:56

Hey beer lovers,

my name is Daniel, I'm 35 years old, born in Bamberg and I'm an absolute franconian beer fanatic and I've just founded my beer bus tours company.
We offer an unforgettable view into the world-famous highest concentration of breweries of Bambergs region.
You will book a full service package - pick up and drop off service within the region of Bamberg - lunch and six different beers are included - minitasting during the ride - inside view of a brewery.
Individual arrangement can be made (other breweries than proposed), we can also arrange accomodations (with lead time).
The tours are available only on saturday and sunday due to the opening hours of the breweries. The minimum booking is 5 people up to 8.
For details visit my page

www.bier-bus.de

and leave like on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/Bierbus-Touren-mit-Genuss-186208505613148/

I hope to see you soon on a ride through Bambergs beer culture!

Prost!

Daniel Stenglein



   Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Jason  on  2018-10-31 01:23:08

Sers Daniel, 

I would recommend also posting something on Beer Advocate, there are lots of people on there and generally quite a bit of discussion regarding Franconia. 

Ich wohne auch in Bamberg, ursprünglich aus dem Vereinigten Königreich. Wenn ich dir helfen kann, mit Leute die der Bus buchen wollen, sag ich dir Bescheid.

Grüße 
Jason 


     Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Bierbus on  2018-11-05 00:40:08

Hey Jason,

that's nice, thank you!

How can I contact you? Are you on facebook?

Cheers,
Daniel



 


       Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Jason  on  2018-11-05 02:28:48

Yes, I'm on Facebook... Jason Watts, I should be easy to find.  


 Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-10-27 13:08:23

It has been too long since my last visit, so I am coming back to Bamberg in November (US Thanksgiving week).  I look forward to drinking a lot of Bockbier, and maybe visiting at least 1 Bockbieranstich (Greifenklau).

Yay!

Jimbo


   Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-28 03:54:42

Ah, that's a shame; I had to look up US-Thanksgiving snd found out that it's a fortnight after I leave.

Next time.


   Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-28 14:29:51

Excellent!!
 


 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:19:45

May be in Bangkok in December, anybody know anything about beer there?


   OT very: Bangkok by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 07:35:24

You're not 'doing a Nick are you' and going off the rails Barry?!?

There's a Mikkeller bar there... I found Flensburg on Koh Samui and it was like nectar after 5 weeks of East Asian pils style beer. 

Go with no expectations and you won't be disappointed. 


   OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-23 04:48:52

What on earth has you travelling all the way to Bangkok in December?  Just curious.  


     OT very: Bangkok by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-23 08:52:49

We call them "Schwanznutten". ;-)


       OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-23 09:06:46

Too funny Juergen.  I'm going to be laughing all day now.
 


       OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-24 13:06:37

Very funny!  Um .... But, not in this case, see below.


   OT very: Bangkok by  DonS on  2018-10-23 11:04:44

Barry, email me. Rather than clutter this space up with an OT discussion, you could ask someone who's actually been to Bangkok relatively recently.


     OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-23 12:47:06




       OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-23 12:50:19

Sorry firing blanks. Barry, my wife and I go to Thailand every couple of yearsso I know Bangkok reasonably well. Email me on johnratcliffe 'at' hotmail.com if you have any specific questions or just a general query about beer in Thailand. Happy to help,
John


     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-24 04:16:07

Barry: other people who know about beer and have also ‘actually’ been to Bangkok are available. 


       OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-24 13:14:03

Ok, in response to my 'friend' Juergen, a totally innocent potential visit but it's not going to happen now.  It's a bit complicated but I'm having delapidated kitchen renovated so I thought that I'd get out of the way and decided to visit my sister in Aussie.  But, as I didn't want to fly non-stop, and didn't fancy Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, UAE, etc., thought Thailand might be nice.

However, as I'm awaiting a final hospital diagnosis, I can't get get travel insurance, so I ain't going nowhere, including Aussie.   I'm writing this sitting in the wreckage of my house - consolation, 4 pints of nice Moose Snowdonia and quite a good meal in the Jalsa, Conwy.

Don, I so appreciate the opinions of my friends on this Forum (but only on beer), that I always float questions here first.  It's a Stammtisch and, on the Stammtisch, the conversation flows freely!


         OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-24 13:21:28

Well IMO it's not so busy here on the forum that we can't have the occasional OT beer related conversation.  Hope your doing okay Barry and your diagnosis on whatever it is is not bad and good luck with the kitchen headache.  You just may have to spend a lot more time in the Albion and Red Lion until it's done.
 


           OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 09:22:10

Exactly.  Because of the free exchange of information, a number of contributors have got to know each other over the years (not an exclusive group, open to anyone!) and this has led to many enjoyable meetings.  As Isay, I value the opinion of my esteemed forum colleagues, so often float OT ideas here - why not, anyone can?

Kitchen is a headache and, as a matter of fact, I'm seeing if I can find somewhere to stay in Bamberg next week (at a reasonable cost for a penurious oap) to escape the banging and crashing and lack of amenities!

Don't worry about the diagnosis but thank you, I'm not too concerned.  Incidentally, I had a really nice Indian (well, Bangladeshi, like most so-called Indian restaurants in UK) in Conwy last night.  Excellent veg Madras and interesting conversation with the waiter/part owner.


             OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 09:56:28

I think that it was John R who recomended a nice Fewo somewhere close to Abseits?  I've only gone and lost the address - again - can you help?


               OT very: Bangkok by  Gavin  on  2018-10-25 15:07:04

Here you go Barry, http://visitbamberg.de


                 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 15:21:52

Thanks, Gavin, much appreciated.  Unfortunately, already booked next week - not surprising!


                   OT very: Bangkok by  Gavin  on  2018-10-25 15:48:03

Shame , Sunday till Thursday is available but not the full week


                     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-25 23:30:47

Next week there is a holiday Barry, on Thursday, which means most people (like me) will take the Friday too. I imagine getting a place in the city will be impossible. 

My parents really enjoyed staying in rattelsdorf. Could help you with an enquiry if you wish. 


                       OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-26 00:55:08

I think I mentioned that a good few airbnb plaves are out near the Abseits, Barry, not aware of a specific place. Our fewo is behind the Fassla, but 2 bedrooms, so not really suitable for you. Theres always Bangkok!!


             OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-25 11:19:51

Escaping to Bamberg while the kitchen is remodeled.  Brilliant!  Why didn't I think of that when mine was being done?  There must be some other home improvement project I can initiate though.
 


               OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-25 23:31:55

Sod it, just knock down the house and start again! 


                 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-26 02:56:25

Unfortunately, it would take the rest of the street with it!

Thanks everybody for help and suggestions.  Now working on several alternative plans.


                   OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-27 02:22:38

So, alternative plan A+ in action - off to Bamberg from Nov 5 to 12, staying at Franks, while kitchen man tiles floor, walls, etc., etc.

I wonder if there's any Bockbier left anywhere or did Fred, Don and the 'Warriors' finish it all?  I'm not too fussed anyway, 'tis a bit strong for little old me.  I'm sure Frank will know.


                     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-27 02:49:22

Plenty of bockbier barry. You will be here for Spezial’s bockbier anstich! And Hummel, Kraus and Spezi Keller! A veritable feast. c. 80% of the bocks in the countryside will have been tapped by then. 


 The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason on  2018-10-22 01:03:07

... they now get their beer from Püls Bräu. I have no further info but 

One plus, Brauerei Schneider in Weißenburg is now brewing again. 


   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-22 01:15:50

Very sad. The Wichert Dunkel was outstanding! But good news about Schneider - as long as I knew it, it was great beer and atmosphere!


     The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:16:06

Oh no, it's getting worse and worse. Wichert was really nice. Who are Puls, any good?


       The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 07:38:10

Puls Brau is in Weisman, south of Burgkunstadt. Never really drunk it, it's probably comparable to Kitzmann; fine but boring. Or maybe i'm being generous. 


         The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 08:09:22

Unless the social culture in Bavaria changes, I'm afraid we can expect more closings or unwanted changes. And I'm not too optimisitic about the social culture changing.


           The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 08:25:47

In many ways it's less about the culture of Franconia and more about existential influences. Legislation, changing society, the growth of cities, health awareness, lifestyle choices, technology, globalisation etc etc. And I'm not casting judgement on those examples. 

It's the social culture of Franconia that has preserved many of these breweries for so long - like nowhere else in the world.

The question is not why so many are closing; but how so many have lasted so long. 


             The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 09:25:44

Sorry, but I disagree and your last sentence is evidence of why you are wrong. The social culture I was referring to was the reluctance of children to take over the pub when their parents decide to retire. The pubs lasted so long because, until recently, the children followed their parents.

I'm not saying that there are no other factors causing the closings. But the children is, in my view, the big one. We had a similar case here in Amsterdam and the parents put the pub up for sale rather than just closing.

 


               The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason on  2018-10-22 09:46:26

Wrong? Why does someone have to be wrong? Why can’t you disagree and leave it at that? It’s kindergarten stuff. 

The following generation often pass up the family business because of the factors I mentioned (AS EXAMPLES): globalization and the opportunities in cities. Do they decide to take up farming or rearing livestock? No. They go to study or travel and go to live elsewhere - because they have a choice. Villages are slowly dying all over Westen Europe. Social culture doesn’t derive from children all of a sudden just having no appetite for family business, that’s the result, and it’s caused by factors influencing the global western society - nothing to do with Bavaria or Franconia uniquely. 

The son of one brewery here is a brewer, and he won’t take over his fathers brewery because he prefers working at Kaiser Brau in Neuhaus where he has fixed working hours. Lifestyle CHOICE. 50 years ago that wouldn’t have been a choice. 


                 The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 10:42:19

Look, I said I diagreed with you, so obviously one of us is wrong. Sure, kids today certainly have more choices than our parents did. And yes, that's probably why they look elsewhere for a career. When choices are more limited, following your father or mother into a career must be a pretty easy choice.
Although it's got nothing to do with brewing or beer, Hitler's father wanted Adolf to follow in his footsteps. Hitler didn't and we all know how badly that turned out. Yes, a rather extreme example. I've got two kids who are both in their twenties and both have chosen a profession different from mine. OTOH, they are both doing quite well in their chosen profession, so I can't really complain.


                   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 10:54:20

You are free to disagree, but that remains your opinion, as it was mine. Saying someone is wrong, unless it is a tangible 'fact', is very different and unnecessary. It's just general etiqutte, which should apply to forums as well as in person. 

Anyway, moving on, I'm not sure your examples bring anything to the discussion, aside from agreeing with me, so I don't have anything more to add. 


                   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  TomM on  2018-10-22 11:43:57

"Hitler's father wanted Adolf to follow in his footsteps. Hitler didn't and we all know how badly that turned out."

Wow, didn't expect Godwin's Law to be rearing its ugly head in a forum about German beer.


                     The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-23 02:42:29

I see you left out the preface to the sentence: "Although it's got nothing to do with brewing or beer..."

As it happens, I know about Hitler's early life and I know that his father often beat the young Hitler because both father and son were strong-willed and both had different ideas about what young Hitler should become later in life.

When surnames were given out in the medieval time, many of these surnames described a profession, such as Müller (miller),  Schmidt (blacksmith), Schneider (tailor) Schulz (guard), Metzger (butcher), Bauer, (farmer), Zimmerman (carpenter),etc. While these names described the profession of the father, it was conventional at the time that the children would carry on the father's profession. Hitler's story is an example of that tradition. Other surnames included a place, such as Frankfurter, Berliner, Koelner, etc. since people at that time did not move around as much as we do today.

When the Bierbraurechten (brewing licenses) were given out in the early middle ages,  they were given to buildings, not to people. Why? Because the people would die and the recht would die with them. Buildings, OTOH, could last and do last for centuries, which would mean long-term availability of beer. Of course, that assumed (correctly for many centuries) that the family of the father would carry on brewing or that the house might be sold in the future to a family that would be interested in the profession.

I once found a real estate company in Germany, that let you search for homes that included a Bierbraurecht - meaning, you could buy the house and without any further administrative permission,  begin brewing.



 No trains between Bamberg and Forchheim 20th–27th October by  Barm on  2018-10-19 03:47:34

From this Saturday the line between BA and FO is closed while they work on it to expand it to four tracks.
Replacement buses will be running but do check the DB site before travelling and plan for longer journey times. The four tracks will be used when the new timetable starts on 9 December.

https://www.infranken.de/regional/forchheim/ab-samstag-fahren-keine-zuege-mehr-in-forchheim;art216,3777747


 Endres / Goldenen Adler by  moleha4 on  2018-10-19 02:12:54

I recollect that when I first tried to visit this place mid October 2014, that they were having their 2 week long Betriebsurlaub, so I am guessing that this is why it was found to be closed earlier this week. 


 Brauerei Endres by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-18 07:14:57

Does anyone know if Brauerei Endres, Rattelsdorf is still brewing. If so, is it worth a visit?


   Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 08:40:13

They were as of last July and I thought the beer was very good as it has been in past visits.  I think it is well worth a visit.  However, Jason can probably chime on a more recent experience as I recall he found the beer not very good recently.  Still I'd give it a visit considering there are also other places nearby that you can visit such as Ebing and also if you don't mind a walk up over a hillside there is Reckendorf.

When it's in good form it's one of my favorite beers (and luckily it's always been in good form when I have visited - at least I never tasted anything wrong) and it's a really nice place and village to drink in.
 


     Brauerei Endres by  TomM on  2018-10-18 08:44:45

There's a five-star review on Google from just a week ago on both the food and beer.

Phone # is +49 9547 264.


       Brauerei Endres by  Mosquit on  2018-10-18 09:23:16

Have been there in the spring, opened as usual. I wouldnt comment the quality of beer, to not open flane war again :)


         Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 10:25:39

I think you should comment on the quality of the beer.  No flame war necessary.  I think the results in some of these small countryside breweries can and do vary.  While I have really liked the beer in my past visits I've also heard the occasional negative reports.  It's no surprise.
 


           Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 10:26:50

I think the bottom line is though, as it relates to this particular thread, is David should go and see for himself.  Worst case scenario is he doesn't like it and visits one of the other breweries nearby.


             Brauerei Endres by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-19 00:13:53

Still brewing and the beer is awesome. Sorry to sound too positive and non-critical for a "conoisseur".


               Brauerei Endres by  Barry on  2018-10-19 01:41:11

Bit confused at first because I always just think of Endres Rattelsdorf as just Goldenen Adler, Hoefen. Imho, what is there to dislike? Lovely dark beer (I've never had anything but excellent), good service, nice place. What more do you need? Food, no idea, couldn't care less, take my own to most places.

Juergen, great minds think alike! I've not often (ever?) found you wrong.


                 Brauerei Endres by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-19 01:52:54

Thanks to all who replied. I was asking on behalf of a friend who visited yesterday around 17:00 only to find the place closed. He did get to speak with some locals who seemed to think that the beer was being brewed on the premises but that's ony hearsay. I'll have to drop in next time I'm in the area


                   Brauerei Endres by  Jason on  2018-10-21 03:49:58

The beer is brewed there. They had Kerwa a few weeks nach which is why they are closed. I visited the week before Kerwa and the beer was poor, full of butter. This is an anomaly though, it’s normally good, though nothing special to my mind. 

Kerwa in snall villages can often lead to shorter lagering time as they try to produce more beer. A couple of corrections: the pub is called Goldemer Adler, the family name is endres, the village is Höfen and the beer is golden not dark. 


                 Brauerei Endres by  Barm on  2018-10-19 03:37:05

Are you a Brotzeit devotee Barry? It is one of my favourite things about the pub culture in Oberfranken.


                   Brauerei Endres by  Barry on  2018-10-19 16:12:33

Not specially, basically, I go to pubs to drink beer. Food, I can eat at home. Btw I'm a vegetarian, so franken/Bayern/German food not especially appealing. Strangely, the best pub for veggie food in Bamberg is one of the most traditional. Anyone guess (or could care less)?


                     Brauerei Endres by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 03:13:37

I'd be interested to know as I have a veggie in my group visiting next autumn.


 Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jason on  2018-10-15 04:36:13

So i was in Griess on Saturday and it was confirmed that Krug is closed until further notice due to illness. It’s thought to be serious. 

Sad on many levels. Let’s hope the situation improves, regardless of whether the brewery opens again or not. 


   Brauerei Krug - Update  by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-18 07:11:24

Agreed, thanks for the update Jason


     Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 08:43:59

It is a bummer about Krug.  Personally I like it better than Griess and I really like the pub and the beer garden.  Nice atmosphere, good beer, etc.   It's a bummer.


       Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jeff Romain on  2018-10-19 09:20:22

Totally agree, Mark. My heart really sank when I learned of this. I always enjoyed staying in Geisfeld. While I enjoy the beers just fine at Griess (esp. the Pils, which I believe has been discontinued, sadly), the barrel pours at Krug always seemed to have a lot of soul, and the brewpub felt cozy. I found the Lager to be a terrifically balanced and clean beer with a nice Spalter hop signature. Did you ever try their Rauchbier or Helles Lagerbier, by chance?  
 


         Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Barry on  2018-10-19 16:15:06

Agreed. What's the one with 'sheep' in it's name?


           Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jason on  2018-10-21 14:18:00

Schwarzer Schaf i think. They did periodical specials. 

I was with Frank and Robert today and the brewery is highly unlikely to reopen. 


             Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:20:48

That's it. Very nice. Real shame.


         Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-21 16:40:18

No I never did try their Rauchbier or Helles.  


 Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason on  2018-10-12 18:54:31

more details to follow, or not. 


   Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-13 02:11:19

I really hope not, as i like Krug a lot.


     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-13 02:58:51

There is no question that it's closed Barry, the question was whether more details will follow. I heard it from a friend and Fred confirmed he's heard something similar. I have sent a text to Robert for final confirmation. 

Kitzmann was nothing compared to this one, a real gem of a pub. Admittedly I wasn't a frequent visitor but i always enjoyed it when I did. I guess a small village with 2 breweries and a keller (plus at least one other pub I can remember) can't sustain all. But then I'm speculating. 


       Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-14 01:45:06

Strange really - many members of this forum preferred Griess to Krug but, the few times that I was in Geisfeld, Krug was always more populated. Nice place, nice beer but rather odd opening times, if I remember correctly?


         Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-15 00:33:01

That's very sad news and I can't quite believe it. It used to be a very popular place amongst the villagers and the beer enthusiasts. 


           Krug, Geisfeld closes by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-15 03:23:49

Great shame, I always enjoyed my visits to Krug. Liked the beer and the Brotzeit and that thing that has all but disappeared in Bamberg...a warm welcome. There's no justice.
 


       Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barm on  2018-10-15 03:12:12

You might well prefer Krug beer to Kitzmann beer (I think I probably would too) but it is wrong to counterpose Kitzmann as “nothing” in comparison. They are both aspects of the same sad phenomenon.

I think it’s very sad when a larger town loses its "own" brewery, one that – and I think this is the distinguishing feature – supplied significant numbers of outlets beyond its own brewery tap, sponsored the local festivals or football team, and “prägt das Stadtbild” – in a way that cannot be compensated by a couple of guys setting up in their garage to brew IPAs.

I have always found it comforting to arrive in a town and see that the beer is different, but nonetheless ubiquitous, to see the Hofbräu signs on restaurants in Würzburg, Brauhaus signs in Schweinfurt and Kitzmann in Erlangen (and I am old enough to remember Hiernickel in Hassfurt and Werner in Poppenhausen too). It doesn’t really matter if I thought the beers were especially good, that's not the point. The average citizens of these places are now all drinking Kulmbacher instead (whether they realise it or not).





 


         Krug, Geisfeld closes by  barry on  2018-10-15 14:43:21

I'm not sure that I ever drank Kitzmann biers but I do agree wtih your general point.


           Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mosquit on  2018-10-15 22:43:36

I have been in Kitzmann in summer, directly in their Gasthof. 
To be honest nothing special, I would say we were not impressed at all. 

Another surprise was the price, which was about 3,60€ for a Seidla of usual beer  (Pils / Helles / Kellerbier) and 3,90€ for specials... 

Anyway its pity, as it was supplier for many pubs in region. 

With Krug: I like it much more than Griess, so this was shocking news for me. Hopefully they could get back soon, if any. 
 


             Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Andrew H on  2018-10-17 09:16:48

I am sure mosquito that you approached the Brewer,and advised him regarding his mistakes in brewing. I feel sure he will be most grateful for you advice.and learn by his mistakes.


               Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-17 11:06:50

Are you taking the p___ Andrew? Naughty boy.
 


                 Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-17 13:02:06

It's professional jealousy perhaps.  I happen to know from personal experience that Andy is one of the toughest and most aggressive beer raters ever.  I think he feels threatened.


                   Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-18 03:31:22

To be fair to Mosquit, he (i presume he) never said there were any mistakes in the beer, merely that it was 'nothing special'. 

I side with Andy generally on the fact that so many people in the beer world talk so much about so many things they know next to nothing about. Like a lot of things these days, their opinion is based on things they read on the internet. Regurgitated ignorence. 


                     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mosquit on  2018-10-18 06:28:19

We (group of me + few brewers, some of them being certified beer judges) haven't detected any off-flavors in few samples of Kitzmann, to be fair. Just beer wasn't properly balanced as we would like to. In some beers, we had a feeling that too much hop extract was used, causing unpleasant bitterness. 

It simply ended as "OK, we have tested it, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't anyhow remarkable or exceptionally good, there is no reason to stop here next time". 
 


     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Andrew H on  2018-10-17 09:11:32

Sorry chaps! Had lots going on recently. Will catch up when I get to a proper PC,not this bloody phone! Seems like there is a heluva lot going on.


 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barm on  2018-09-28 12:59:50

Shock closure of Kitzmann brewery in Erlangen – brewing ceases as of this Sunday, 30th September.

Brands and distribution agreements are being taken over by Kulmbacher. The 35 Kitzmann staff have been made redundant.

http://www.nordbayern.de/region/erlangen/zasur-in-erlangen-brauerei-kitzmann-stellt-betrieb-ein-1.8130868


   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  TomM on  2018-09-28 14:33:35

Disturbing news, whatever you think about Kitzmann beer.

I have had no inkling of a problem with the brewery. Any others closer to Erlangen?


     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-09-29 09:21:04

Closure connected with Nick's defection?


       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-09-30 17:10:49

I agree with Barry.  Nick, give us a shout out


         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  FredW on  2018-09-30 17:53:36

I'm not sure Nick is active online so much any more...

https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/police-arrest-man-threatening-to-burn-down-hard-rock-hotel/article_7a2dc11b-9ece-525b-ac4c-a6e010c7a738.html

There was a court date on this earlier this year but I haven't heard anything about it. His facebook page has been inactive since then.


           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-01 03:40:58

My comment was a bit flippant, Doug; as Fred says, Nick's life has taken a wholly unexpected turn, far away from Erlangen.  We used to correspond regularly but I also haven't heard from him since the unfortunate incident, subject of the news story.


             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-01 04:22:49

He still has an active twitter account that he uses primarily to preach about carnivory.  But it does appear he has made his 10k bail as he is on the loose in Vegas. 


               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  TomM on  2018-10-01 14:42:46

This thread took a weird turn. Even weirder than usual.


           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-01 16:44:19

Fred, thanks for the update.  Never met Nick but did enjoy his inputs.  Really hope this situation works out favorable for Nick.


             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-02 03:02:48

According to various newspapers Herr Kitzmann says, his reasons for the closure were the ongoing decline of beer consumption and "personal reasons". 35 people lost their job. The brand was sold to Kulmbacher - so we all know what we can expect when ordering a Kitzmann in a few weeks... :-/

Won't comment on Nick's questionable career. 


               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-03 04:31:03

Is there an 'ongoing decline' in beer consumption in Franken?

You are the 'sole of discretion', Juergen!

Tom: don't conversations normally take weird turns? Lrt's face it, people are pretty weird! 


                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-04 00:41:31

https://www.bayerisches-bier.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Bier-Pro-Kopf-Konsum-Deutschland-seit-1960-3.pdf


                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry on  2018-10-04 02:12:44

Interesting but two points:
1. As  I understand it, the graph shows consumption per head rather than total production and consumption. Does this mean that the same amount of beer is being consumed by more people or less beer being consumed by the same number of peope?
2. It suggests that beer consumption per head is at 1960s levels. Presumably, the population was less then and Germany was split in two! Does this graph cover both east and west?


                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-05 02:01:55

Here is a chart with the number of working breweries per state in Germany from 1995 to 2017. By this time, German reunification had occurred.

http://www.brauer-bund.de/download/Archiv/PDF/statistiken/Betriebene%20Braust%C3%A4tten%20nach%20Bundesl%C3%A4ndern%201995-2017.pdf

Whereas almost all states saw an increase in the number of breweries, Bavaria lost 84. FWIW, Bavaria is the second most populous state in Germany. It is mostly rural.


                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-05 04:41:36

Um ... interesting figures but not quite answering my questions.

Someone else will have to calculate the minutiae; i.e. number of breweries per head of population, beer produced per brewery, etc., but what is obvious, of course, is that the number of breweries in Bayern is and was far greater than anywhere else by a big margin.  But, why did Nord Rhein-Westfalen (the biggest Laender) have, apparently, so few - after all, beer drinking is hardly uncommon there?  Why does Baden-Wuerttemburg (nearly as populous as Bayern, quite rura and which includes a slice of Franconia) have far less breweries than Bayern?  Incidentally, what is the proportion of breweries in Frankische B-W compared to the rest of the Laender?  Does Bayern have so many breweries because it is rural (transport problems, isolated communities, etc.)?

Another interesting thing is that, with the exception of Thueringen, every Laender has increased the number of its breweries?  Are they all aspiring to be Bayern?  More and more questions spring to mind, for example, the influence (if any) of religion: Bayern is by far the most Catholic Laender and has the most breweries.  If we combine the populations of the three most Protestant states (Hessen, Bremen, Nieder-Sachsen), the figure is only a couple of million less than Bayern but, between them, they have only a third of the breweries but nearly doubling between 1995 and 2017. Interesting.

I have no idea if anyone else is interested in this kind of thing.  You might guess that it's a slow morning, raining outside and I'm fairly stiff from yesterday's golf.  Thanks for providing the diversion, Herr Berger! 


                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barm on  2018-10-05 05:01:32

Nordrhein-Westfalen is also the part of Germany that is most industrial, so much so that it is iconic. Krupp, Thyssen, the miners of Dortmund and Bochum. Brewing there therefore also became industrialised, so there were/are a fairly small number of large breweries producing a huge amount of beer. Dortmund was the biggest beer producing city in Germany at its height.

Baden-Württemberg is in a similar position, dominated by strong regional breweries. And it is also a very significant wine producing state, which Bayern isn't.

Bayern is the exception, not the norm. We should be asking why Bayern still had so many breweries, not why other states have fewer.


                           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-05 07:08:05

Maybe we should also ask why is Bayern losing so many breweries?  Are there issues beyond less consumption. 
Hope Barry enjoyed his golf game yesterday


                             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-05 08:35:33

Absolutely but I think most of the reasons have been given - fall of demand in rural areas, changes of taste and, probably most significant, lack of successors.  Volunteers for a serious study required.

And, thanks for asking: it was my first venture onto a golf course since a year last November (or thereabouts) and I was pleased to find that I wasn't doing much worse than before. Not that that was anything special. But, after 9 holes, today, I feel a little bit stiff and muscles that I didn't know that I had are aching!


                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-06 10:59:39

Bavaria is geographically unique in Germany. In the south of Bavaria are the German Alps. And while there may be hills elsewhere in Germany, there are no other mountains. Thanks to the unusual geography, Bavaria had a primitive sort of refrigeration centuries before the rest of the country.

In addition to the mountains, there were also lakes and ponds. There were also stone caves. The Bavarians would wait until the lakes and ponds had frozen, then cut out large blocks of ice and bring them into the caves. They also planted leafy trees near the cave entrances to keep out sunlight. Barrels of beer were stored in these caves over the summer. Because of the danger of fire, brewing was not allowed during the summer months.

In the early middle ages Bavarian rulers were giving houses brewing rights so that townspeople would have beer to drink. These brewing rights were given as early as the 13th and 14th centuries.

Gradually communal brewing houses were set up. Mostly these were established in the homes of people with brewing rights. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of these communal breweries in Bavaria. Many of them were still active as late as 1990. Since then,however, many have closed. However, there are local beer enthusiasts who often try to renovate the closed brewery and bring it back into service. There is one in Junkersdorf that's been renovated. Here's a photo of the interior: http://vquante.jalbum.net/Junkersdorf/slides/Bild%20(2).html
and here's a photo of the building: http://vquante.jalbum.net/Junkersdorf/slides/Bild%20(5).html

One could perhaps say that for many centuries, the Bavarian people were rather spoiled. Most towns and villages had at least one brewery and part of the Bavarian Reinheitsgebot is that the beer should be of good quality.

At some point after 1990, commercial brewing replaced some of the communal breweries. While German beer is generally quite good, the commercial brewers  were perhaps abit of a disappointment after centuries of communal brewing. When I visited a Zoigl brewery in Mitterteich for the first time I was shocked at how full of customers it was.

Perhaps for older Bavarians who had grown used to the communal breweries, it was a bit disappointing to switch to a private commercial brewery. For younger Bavarians, I suspect they are the prime target of the new breweries making "craft" beer.

Some years ago, it was probably possible for a Bavarian to walk to his local communal brewery and buy a bottle of beer. Or there might be pubs in the village serving the communal brewed beer. Today that is rather rare.

Here is the abandoned communal brewery in Waischenfeld: http://vquante.jalbum.net/TdB2014/slides/Bild%20(8).html

And here's a view of the remains inside the brewery: http://vquante.jalbum.net/TdB2014/slides/Bild%20(7).html

I cannot say with dead certainty that the slow demise of communal brewing is the cause of commercial breweries closing in Bavaria. But it's as good a reason as any other. 
 


                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-07 07:12:16

Very good rundown.  Personally I see valid reasoning.


                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-08 04:58:06

In the past, I wrote extensively on the communal brewhouse tradition, particularly in the Oberpfalz and, particularly in Windischeschenbach ('Eschawo') and Neuhaus, where I have spent many months over the last 10 years. I have got to know all the Zoigl brewers and spent many, many hours in the brew houses. I'm also the author of the authorised English-language introduction to Zoigl on the 'Echter Zoigl' website (Zoiglbier.de).  I stopped writing so much about Zoigl because, as some people pointed out, this is a site about Frankische beer! Introduction over!

There are several aspects of Herr (?) Berger's summary that I can comment on: firstly, the question of geography. You don't don't need high mountains to provide the kind of storage that the long lagering of slow fermenting beer requires.  There are no high mountains around any of the five Zoigl towns in the Oberpfalz (maybe the Steinwald?) and, in fact, in the past, the people of Eschawo and Neuhaus actually dug cellers to store the beer in - I know, I've been in them. There are lakes and ponds all over Germany and the use of ice from such sources is not unique to Bavaria or even Germany - it even happened in Britain!  As I understand it, summer brewing was not practiced because of the problem of cooling the wort in hot periods using only a the Kühlschiff and had little or nothing to do with fire hazards. 

I don't think that it is true that the communal brew houses were set up just 'so that the townspeople would have beer to drink', it was much more to do with control and taxation. For example, Eschawo, with a population of less than one thousand in the 15th century, had three brewhouses becauses the town was ruled by three different authorities, each one taxing and controlling production in their 'own' brew house. Incidentally, 'Zoiglbraurecht' (the laws controlling brewing Zoigl beer) were established well before the Reinheitsgebot, which, AFAIK, had no influence in the Zoigl towns.

The reason for the decline in communal brewing was really due to changes in the social structure of the Zoigl towns.  In previous times, the house brewers essentially brewed for themselves and only invited the neighbours in towards the end of the life of a batch of Zoigl, in order that it should not be wasted. AFAIK, most or all of the current Zoiglstube in Eschawo and Neuhaus, are relatively modern inventions, possibly with the exception of Zum Roud'n which was a farm and, historically, brewed beer for their workers.  As industry developed in the small towns and villages and people became factory workers and not self-employed craftsmen, so they had little time for house brewing. I think that the commercial breweries, which had developed through the improvement in brewing techniques in the 19th century, gradually took the place of the communal brewers.

As regards the contention that 'the slow demise of comunal brewing is the cause of commercial breweries closing in Bavaria', I can see no justification for this claim.  On the contrary, it might be argued that the rise of commercial breweries was due to the decline in communal brewing.  I feel that the demise of the commercial village brewery is due to other social and economic developments - too much to discuss in this contribution!


                                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-08 08:46:53

Barry, while Zoigl is communally brewed, not all communally brewed beer is Zoigl. In the part of Franconia where Sesslach is, there are about 20 towns which have working communal breweries and, as far as I know, none of them call their beer Zoigl.

Have you even been to Reindl in Neuhaus a.d, Pegnitz? For reasons that I certianly don't understand,  the gemeinde decided to sell a working communal brewery to one of your countrymen as a residence. According to a waitress at Reindl, there was a second communal brewery, but it had never been renovated back into working order. Once the working communal brewery closed, the three (or is it four?) families that counted on it to supply  them with beer all had to look for a new supplier. They eventually found one in another village several kilometers from Neuhaus. I went back to Reindl (one of my favourite old standbys) and ordered a beer. It was nothing like what the communal brewry had supplied them with and was not very good. Some months after this experience I read that Reindl had closed for good. I imagine the other families that were supplied by the local communal brewery had to do the same.

All the information I posted come from German books and other documents  I have collected over the years. Little to none of it is based, on personal experience or observations.


                                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-08 09:38:11

Hi, sorry don't know your first name to respond in a friendly fashion!

Yes, I know that it's not all Zoigl but I was only talking about the communal brewing area that I know.  AFAIK, Sesslach is the only place outside the Oberpfalz where the communal brewing tradtion is easily regularly accessible.  I have a list of the other communal breweries, kindly supplied by Gernot Wildung but have never managed to visit any because of the logisitical problems.  Like with so many other things, to really know about them takes a lot of detailed study and, as Echte Zoigl is the only really operating tradition outside of Sesslach, it's worth concentrating on. I would actually like to know more details about the way that things developed but I have a pretty good idea of the general outline.

My observations on Zoigl are based on a combination of personal experience (I have spent a lot of time there), talking with the Zoigl brewers (particularly in Eschawo/Neuhaus, where I think that I know most of them fairly well) and also with lots of Zoigl enthusiasts. I've spent a lot of time in the brew houses, specially Eschawo, and also read all (AFAIK) of the books and relevant documents on Zoigl (what a wasted life!) and also the history (very complex, all in German - and I'm no export on the language).  

The relationship between the commercial brewery in Eschawo (Wuerth) and the Zoigl brewers is quite complex and interesting: a sort of a mutual dependency!  

Sadly, I missed the Neuhaus kommunbrauerei by a couple of years and it is sad that the tradition should have been so wantonly squandered.

 


                                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-08 10:33:57


Especially the selling of a functioning communal brewery to an Brit. I hope the townsfolk made his life a misery, I certainly would have done my bit to do so. There is so much land to build houses I cannot understand how that happened. 

I hope beer in one of the Neuhaus concerns, Reindl I think, and it was very good. 


 

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