Franconia Beer Message Board

Post new message
Unthreaded View (Date Order) Calendar of Bamberg Visits
View the archive back to day 1 of the board. How to get there Wiki
A RSS feed of the last 20 posts Search

Post is less than 24 hours old  Musings on current situation in Bamberg  by  Jason on  2020-06-04 11:27:59

I've made my opinions known but it remains a difficult situation where people are exercising more caution (in certain situations), than is needed. Those hoping for a quick bounce back in the economy are going to be disappointed. The rules are also really hard for the gastronomy to abide by to the point where it constitutes an existence. It would, at any other time, seem a positive when Herr Merz of Spezial had to turn away 2 couples because they are 'full'. It clearly isn't, when the capacity is probably 40%. Luckily for me, he found me a seat. 

Events at Schlenkerla have also been strange. On Monday they were told by police they couldn't have people taking beer away to drink in the Sandstraße, in spite of signs asking them to stand at least 50m away from the door. But now it's been permitted. Space is now a premium everywhere (not in the sense that everywhere is full but if you sit on a 4 seat table on your own that's a waste) so if you want to sit on your own for a beer you need to get lucky as it makes even less economic sense. 

Klosterbräu are opening soon (maybe this week), but this is a really gamble as they have relatively few local  regulars and their income is mainly from tourists (day trippers, vacationers and coach trips). 

I think it's the food here that is difficult to adapt. Traditional Franconian cooking is "canteen style", where the cook starts early and prepares a large number of versions of the same dish. You can't do that now, the economics of scale just don't work, or at least are a lot less profitable (and the food is cheap in the pubs). 

In short, no change really. 

Post is less than 24 hours old    Musings on current situation in Bamberg  by  Andrew H on  2020-06-04 12:40:07

Interesting, I dont think the atmosphere would appeal to me (personal opinion). From the information and plans we are getting on how it will work  here, it would seem a strange atmosphere, with screens, floor markings, no bar ordering etc. And mostly when they refer to pubs they really mean pub/restaurants. I cant see how it would work in a traditional pub.
So I will dream of the day when normality returns and,I can drink in a good old pub,and not in my flat!
Prost! Jason.

 A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-02 14:08:59

   A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-02 14:24:02

Oh dear...sorry Fred! Here be a link to a full-sized pic.
It is from my mate Ian of Trashford, England, who has met Fred 
and presumably that chap that runs Cafe Abseits. 
He says he hopes to get back to Franconia ASAP, and I've
suggested that he meet up with Juergen, specifically to get
him around to the most obscure breweries imaginable, like,
oh, that one whose beer I didn't enjoy as much as I should
have that one time...where is it Spielbach!

There are quite a few here I don't recognize, presumably 
because I didn't get around as much during my 13 years in
Erlangen as I should have, but that's OK. Also, I reckon a 
few are new.

Hope the posting format works OK, consider this a test.

     A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-02 14:25:23

    The link I posted above does lead to a higher-res photo, for those who need or want the detail.

     A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Jason on  2020-06-02 22:57:05

Hmmm, nothing too obscure, but an interesting selection aside from a couple of duffers (Kulmbach and Neumarkter Lammsbräu). I presume bought from Bayreuth, as most of delivery has a distinctly 'Oberfälzisch' dialect. 

       A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-06-03 01:46:57

Pretty much like the view in my garage at the moment, except half the Franconian beers replaced by local microbreweries.

         A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer (Plus Good German Weisswurst-ish Sausage in the US) by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:07:35

Ian got it from 


As an aside, I found Snappy Grillers and another variety of more mundane Frankfurter type sausage at the big grocer's here recently. The Snappy Grillers are sort of like a cooked Weisswurst in Frankfurter form, I guess. I love 'em, and Weisswurst is about my favourite thing of all from the Bavarian capital.

Has anyone else in the US tried them? Currently $4/package, which is a pretty good price round here.

(No, I don't bother with zuzeln or whatever. The casing is Americanised.)

       A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:00:17

I had the same reaction to seeing those two breweries. But kegged Lammsbraeu was a nice surprise at an Italian place in Erlangen. Clean, mild, what some might even call..."bland". (Have to be careful using that trigger word though!)

     A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-06-03 02:44:21

Well, the weather is fine, nearly all of the Kellers are open. Have been to Schwanenkeller Burgebrach and Mühlenbräukeller Mühlendorf last Monday. No need to store beer. ;-)

       A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Jason on  2020-06-03 04:29:40

And they need us more than ever right now... 

Post is less than 24 hours old          A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-06-04 04:12:59

I second that.

       A Photo of 36 Bottles of Beer  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 07:57:09

Hope you're enjoying yourself and are well, Juergen. Ian is a very big guy on, but he is NOT the sort of guy that only takes a sip. No, he drinks an appropriate, enjoyable measure, and enjoys a place and culture as much as the beer.

I think he'll be travelling in his new camper van. I will insist that you two meet up. Or try to, anyway. Take him to Spielbach and wherever else.

AFA no need to store beer goes...if you mean, there's no good reason to not get out to the Keller(s) and drink it, as opposed to let the beer there lager (Eng verb: to store)...good one. If you mean, however, there's no reason to resort to 36 bottles of beer, well, Ian has no real alternative ATM.

Me...if I were drinking beer these days, I'd be limited to expensive supermarket bottle selections (or whatever online shops can ship, I have no idea), or the sort of industrial American lager I used to frown upon, or the nearby "craft" place, that looks like where I would have drunk myself under a table every night in a previous existence. Yikes, the web design! That place appears to have no re-opened. Florida (and/or the county where I am) kept bars that don't serve food closed longer than restaurants, but I think that has changed now.

 A day in Forchheim  by  Jason  on  2020-05-30 03:27:57

Yesterday I spent a very pleasant day in Forchheim, visiting Neder and the Kellerberg. The Neder pub is shut (inside), but the brewery yard out the back was packed with 'the usual' suspects. The beer was good as always these days. I've never been to the back of the breweries and it really is a lovely spot, like going back in time. The pub at hebendanz remains closed and I doubt it will open the same way again. 

We then went up to the Kellers. Hebendanz Keller was pleasant, beer was fine. Then Greif, though the beer no longer seems to be tapped from gravity. It was therefore rather a 'boring' seidla, the least good of the day. Then we went up to the Neder Keller. Again, very enjoyable beer, though noticeably different to the gravity poured version enjoyed earlier in the day. Eichhorn Keller was also open (as were a couple of others). Attendance was ok, probably perfectly fine for a pleasant (not hot at 21 degrees) May day. 

News came today that beer gardens / outdoor gastronomy can open until 22uhr (same as inside), ending the rather farcical week where you could stay in the arguably more dangerous inside until 22uhr but outside had to shut at 20uhr. 

Today I am starting at Rittmayer in Aisch where the beer is excellent as always. I shall be visiting Roppelt and Lieberth Kellers later via (maybe) the Laufer Keller. Again, it's windy and cool, but sunny, and Monday is a holiday so I'm expecting some moderate crowds. 


   A day in Forchheim  by  Nor on  2020-05-30 03:47:07

Lovely, curious ot har how the Hallerndorf Kellers are doing!
Planning a trip for end June!

     A day in Forchheim  by  Jason  on  2020-05-30 04:30:07

I'll be sure to update the post on them. 

Curious to know where you are hoping to travel to Germany from? 

       A day in Forchheim  by  Nor on  2020-05-31 00:38:42

Dutch/German border. As a cross-border work Ive been in Germany once a week over the last months and even managed to have a few glasses of Alt in Dusseldorf this week!
If Germany doesn't slide back drastically, I don't expect travel to be an issue. If I manage toget an antibody test until then, even better.

         A day in Forchheim  by  Barm on  2020-05-31 09:33:04

I imagine once quarantine is lifted transport operators will start running more than a skeleton service of flights and trains again. The issue I see for tourists is that until the pandemic is officially declared over you won't be able to get travel insurance.

   A day in Forchheim  by  B N on  2020-05-30 06:36:30

Menschen unterschiedlichster Herkunft und verschiedenster Berufe vereint der gemeinsame Durst - ohne Standesdünkel. Der "Neder" ist Treffpunkt für sie alle, sei es um Neuigkeiten zu erfahren oder einfach nur, um ein Bier in geselliger Runde zu trinken.

     A day in Forchheim  by  ToddA on  2020-05-30 19:23:09

My ability to translate is not good but I think Jason was asking because it currently is possible to travel to Germany from the US for example right at the moment. I'll reiterate that I don't know Jason's intent. Travel to Germany for me is postponed until the quarantine is lifted. (I'm from US).

       A day in Forchheim  by  Jason  on  2020-05-31 03:10:25

Just to clarify, the person posting in German posted an 'ode' to Neder:

People of different origins and professions come together under the commonality of thirst - without snobbery. Neder is the meeting place for them all, be it to gossip about the latest news or just to share a beer in good company.

I was only enquiring about travel out of interest. The laws and common sense of people will dictate whom can travel where and when.

         A day in Forchheim  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-31 06:43:36

I used Google translate, and it was pretty close to yours Jason.

           A day in Forchheim  by  Jason on  2020-05-31 07:27:25

Google translate has certainly improved a lot in recent years. It gives you a good 80% of the gist of the sentence, as long as you aren't looking for perfection. Quite often, even if there's a clear mistake or misinterpretation, the context will allow you to fill in the gaps.

I hear a lot of criticism, but in my view the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. It's way better than fingering through a dictionary, which doesn't help you at all when it comes to grammar. 

       A day in Forchheim  by  ToddA on  2020-06-01 00:38:44

I reread my post it should read travel to Germany ISN'T possible from US right now without 14 day quarantine. Quarantine must be in Germany and on your dime. Apologies for any misunderstanding.

         A day in Forchheim  by  Jeff on  2020-06-01 05:26:50

You had me excited for a moment.  I hadn't heard US/Germany travel had reopened...

   A day in Forchheim  by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:09:58

Sounds lovely, Jason. Good for you for doing your part.

Rittmayer...inside or out in the little Keller across the road?

     A day in Forchheim  by  Jason on  2020-06-03 08:35:16

In the little Keller. Kellerla! It's a lovely spot. 

       A day in Aisch by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:39:10

It's a great little spot. Kind of unique. Everyone on here who's not been there should make an effort to get to it. 

And the beer is fantastic....IIRC served from a 500L inliner tank.

 BrewDog by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-28 02:02:57

This will appeal more to those from the UK and those from elsewhere who are familiar with recent events in Britain


   BrewDog by  TomM on  2020-05-28 02:18:06

They will do/say anything for publicity.

   BrewDog by  Barm on  2020-05-28 04:09:09

Nope, nothing BroDog say or do has appealed to me for about ten years.

   BrewDog by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-28 05:03:52

Havent got much time for Brewdog, but thats quite good, we need a laugh given the state of the UK at the moment

 Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-21 02:45:13

Just to come back to John on his questions re how it's going since things have been able to open on Monday. 

Firstly, I think the fanfare that initially greeted the news of openings being possible was quickly quashed by the strict conditions that accompany it. Certainly from the gastronomy point of view. For me, it's an inconvenience, but my love of pubs and being out and about fat outweigh that. I'm not sure others feel the same. Most people are obeying the rules but as usual some think those rules don't apply to them. So the guys and girls working there all day in warm weather have to wear masks at all times but you don't have to, even though it's only before being seated/going to the toilet. You have to register on being seated, and I've heard people have been reluctant to do this (data privacy here is strong, but in this case it's childish imo. If you don't want to disclose the info, stay home. Oh and prices are up. I don't mind that so much, as long as they go down again once losses have been recovered. But I'm in dreamland. 

 Here is a few thoughts from where I've been so far; 

Spezial (brewery) 
First place I went to on Monday and returned yesterday afternoon. Attendance is sparse, it's only a small outdoor space and I don't think it's sustainable. I think Spezi will have problems if this continues. Even next week, the inside is relatively small and cramped. 

Went on Monday and yesterday. Although they have more space and have extended the garden into the Hof, they are being very conservative about seating. Even though I was sat with frank at one end of a long table the waitress asked us if 1 guy could sit at the other end. Again, this isn't sustainable and Schlenkerla are making a show of it (a brave one and one I give them credit for). But they're for sure losing money. The beer was very smoky, maybe due to extra Lagering or maybe as I hadn't had it for 8 weeks. 

Spezi Keller
I'm here now. Beautiful day and a public holiday, normally the place would be packed. Plenty of space here, but plenty of tables not occupied. I reserved but I needn't have bothered. 

So in conclusion it's a very mixed picture, but from the point of view of the gastronomy it's not good at all. I'm very disappointed in 2 things, firstly the usual egotistical politicians peddling populist politics without consulting the relevant sector. I've been a supporter of the measurements put in place and I've adhered to them to 98%. But it's getting a little silly. I'm also disappointed with the people of Bamberg. It's up to us to support our culture, especially with no tourists for the foreseeable. Of course there is less 'Gemütlichkeit' and you have to do a few things you'd rather not do, but by staying away you risk losing this delicate ecosystem forever, as it has been lost in much of the rest of the world.  

For sure you can blame the virus, and for sure it alone will cause closures, but just psychologically, if you're a wirt in Bamberg and you open and aren't supported by your public, I imagine you'd lose the will to continue pretty quickly. By contrast, if you're overwhelmed by support, you'd do everything to stay open. 

It's a delicate situation. Hopefully the rules will be reassessed soon. 

   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-21 02:53:08

After all that I forgot the one success; Eichhorn in Doefleins. Both times I've been, on Monday and Tuesday afternoon, the place was doing a very good trade all day. As many of you know it's often rammed every evening, and this was certainly the case (relatively speaking) in spite of restrictions. I'm also pretty sure it was well supported during the height of the crisis here as well, certainly I picked up beer at least once a week. 

Having a loyal public helps a lot, but having great produce and being a hard working family who all muck in (not always the case) reaps rewards. 

   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-21 06:53:42

Thanks for the update, Jason. I think a lot of older people are still very wary about going out and socialising, youngsters not so much. I wonder if people will gradually start to go out more in the next couple of weeks if the weather stays good. I think its a huge leap for a lot of people to go from 'stay in your life is in danger' to 'go to your local as long as you social distance' in the space of a few days. Hope things get back to normal.

     Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-21 07:25:16

I get that (the fear factor), but honestly, you have more chance of being run over than dying from the virus unless you are in the risk category. Even then it's not a killer. I get the psychological side though.

It may have been 'sold' differently in the UK, but here, it's not about staying in in case you catch it and die, but stay in to prevent the spread. Bamberg has hardly been hit hard. No question that we all have to stay vigilant, but it doesn't have to be at the extent of existence, otherwise what's the point. 

I just overheard the Wirt at Reblitz say that if this mask thing continues they won't be able to. 

       Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-21 07:30:06

Are they talking about what risk factors there are? I've been talking to nurses outside the hospital across the street from where I'm currently lodging. I have a good idea of what they say are risk factors. But it's not really being talked about in the "media" over here, or at least, that's what people say in the health & fitness corner of the internet I hang out in these days.

It does sound like the UK is being sold quite a conservative approach, that sounds counter-productive: stay indoors, out of the sun (such as is available there anyway), out of the fresh air. It's being partially sold that way here, FWICT, but then again we Yanks being the way we are, we just march down to the capitol building armed to the teeth and protest when we don't like something. 

         Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-21 22:37:48

In the US they say the risk factors are:  age (increases for every year over 60), obesity, and underlying health conditions (heart disease, diabetes, lung issues, etc.).

From what I have personally observed in my area, while it is possible that many older folks are staying indoors, the older men who are out and about seem the most cavalier about obeying social distancing. 

           Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:00:30

So, Florida appears to be one of the states that is "re-opening" quicker than others. I think. I don't really watch or read much news. I see more people wearing masks of various sorts, but then I hear that masks can do as much harm as good.

But not to venture into the politics of the is extremely irritating to not know what statistics there are and how trustworthy they are.

In the health & fitness cliques of the internet that I follow these days, the talk is about how, yes, basically, fix your diet and fitness regimen and avoid this along with the vast bulk of medical issues that will eventually lay waste to you as you get old and fat (or skinny-fat). I'm working on it, but I'm not doing enough fitness these days though. The gyms have re-opened, but I have no vehicle to transport me to one, so I'm stuck doing pull-ups from tree branches.

             Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-27 08:17:43

Nick, keep away from beer, follow the strictest of fitness regimes, and for Gods sake avoid getting old and fat,( The cardinal sin).

But the sad truth is, like all the rest of us, you will die. Prost!

               Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:23:01

Eventually an accident will kill you, if nothing else, within 600 years or so. That's what I read once. But with what's being learnt about autophagy (Nobel prize a few years ago was in this field) and other things, whether we are in fact obliged to get old. Biohacking and all that.

Oh, give blood regularly too. Not plasma, but actual blood. Well, give plasma too as that's always needed, but regular blood donors age much better than non-donors.

                 Getting Old by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:30:51

    Should've proofed that post before posting.

But with what's being learnt about autophagy and other things, the question of whether we are in fact biologically obliged to get old is becoming more interesting. Mind you, I'm not sure I'd want to stick around here another century with the way things are going with society. The internet's ruined everything.


                   Getting Old by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-27 11:08:33

Well no worries you won't.  I don't know anything about autophagy but I'm sure the force of gravity alone on our bodies ensures that we won't live forever.

                   Getting Old by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-28 02:08:15

Nick, could it be people who are ruining the internet

       Current situation re openings / conditions  by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-21 08:11:25

Let's just say the UK Government's messaging has been a little 'confused'. Looks like 50000+ excess deaths here so a lot more serious than Germany. I do think youll find that more people will be out over the next few weeks, hope so, anyway, as you say, we cant live like this forever.

         Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-21 08:26:40

No. Hopefully you're right. I guess we have to just be cautious. 

Will report back in the next weeks.

           Current situation re openings / conditions  by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-21 08:35:12

Always good to hear whats going on. We should have been arriving 3 weeks tomorrow.

       Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-22 00:45:59

Jason, I strongly beg to disagree "unless you are in the risk category,Even then it's not a killer" and I think over 36,000 people in the UK (and rising) would, if not already sadly, dead. Disagree as well.
I fully understand that the young will not see this as such a danger,that is natural. And from what I know, you personally would not act selfishly. But whilst some are,and the science is still unclear I sadly, will be staying away from a lot of the things that make life worthwhile.

         Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 02:11:26

I suppose that Andy & myself probably represent most of the older generation on this forum (though he is a mere tot). Anyway, I tend to agree with him. It's ok saying that you stand more chance of being run down (we know that & try to avoid the danger) but Covid 19 has not replaced these other risks but has added to them - thus we have to avoid the traffic (& there's not that much of it in a bar or Keller) and avoid a virus that, unlike a runaway truck, you can neither see or hear coming. Pre-covid standards of personal hygiene (like hand washing) disgusted me and I have no confidence that things are likely to improve. I don't go out that much (that's not that unusual while I'm at home, apart from visits to the pub) but, during my couple of times per week supermarket visits, I see very few people wearing masks. People have been deluded into thinking they weren't necessary in the UK and the jury is still out a bit on their effectiveness but why wouldn't you wear one at least in public places out of care for our fellows? It's not that much of an inconvenience.

           Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-22 05:53:54

I will quickly respond to my learned friends as I know this is a beer forum. And it's hard to explain everything. As Andrew alluded to, I am not suggesting reckless behavior. It's just a tricky balance. Bamberg has had 500 cases since March. And anyway, as I said I was referring to the 'younger' people. The chances of being badly infected whilst being outside are seriously slim. At the end of the day I don't have a (deserved) pension, I have a job. I and other people of my generation have had a pretty shocking time of things compared to the generations after the war. And I'm just trying to a) hold onto my job and b) hold on to the quality of life many people here have enjoyed for 50 years uninterrupted. They have property (something that most of my generation can only dream of without parental help) and jobs for life. Healthcare, benefits, bonuses bla bla. No wonder people are angry when you have these same baby boomers telling us all what to do. But I digress.

I've said since March that reopening could happen quicker if you keep restrictions on the risk groups. Because to be honest, being out in beer gardens this week, they are the ones not adhering to the rules. But that's probably an unfair generalization. If I recall correctly Barry, you were against this 6 weeks or so ago. Sorry, but I don't want to live with the economic fallout of this for the next 10 years (after the last recession), people need to get back to work in countries where it's sensible. 

re masks I agree. Even if they help a bit. Perfect should not be the enemy of the good. 

             Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 07:36:51

Actually, Jason, I think that we agree on more things than we disagree.  You know my views, so won't repeat them here (one eye on Fred!).  I hate this trying to drive a wedge between generations - as it happens, most of my more recent friends are a lot younger than me, probably because I don't have the same life style as a lot of septuagenarians.  I feel desperately sorry for young people trying to get a foothold in life.  I know what it's like - I was born before the end of WW2 (just) and life was pretty hard tfor most of my young life (this is going to sound like the 'Yorkshire' sketch), we were in our 30s when we bought (somehow) our first little terraced house in Leeds and I've been out of work a number of times.  Ok, you can dry your eyes now.

I don't know exactly what it's like living in Franken or Germany in general so I can't comment in detail.  But I do know that there are a lot of poor people, even among my friends.  However, Bamberg seems a pretty prosperous place.

I'm not sure what exactly I said 6 weeks ago - it's been a pretty changeable situation and we've been lied and mislead so much (can I say that Fred?) that it's been hard to know what to think.  I actually came home from Spain nine weeks ago and have been in strict lockdown since (plus the week before when I was in Sevilla, making 10 altogether) and this Forum (plus others) has helped me to retain a little bit of sanity, I hope.  

On beery matters: I cannot see life being the same again for a long time - if maybe ever but perhaps that's over pessimistic.  Some pubs will not survive and, certainly, in the UK, it will be difficult to enjoy the sort of pub life that we had before.  The young will continue to want to go out - if they can afford it - but I think that a lot of people of my generation will be quite wary, given the morbidity rate among 60 plussers. 

Enough for now!  Sorry if I've stretched your rules, Fred.

               Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-22 10:49:55

Barry Bamberg is prosperous (to now) but what happens to the aspiring middle classes? And of course we agree on many things. The money that people have. You're quite right, and you're only 2 years older than my father. Who was born in jersey, and I grow up there among some of the richest people living in the world. As he did, but as a jerseyman. One of the ressons I left, was this sense of entitlement.. My father played professional football, but didn't make it. My parents lived a relatively poor situation, though with a lot of highlights.

So I've probably latched on to Bamberg from this idea of comfort. I have a good job at adidas and Beth has a good job in the health system but she's underpaid by at least 10€k w year for what she does. And my wage is better than what my mother and father earned combined but it still lags behind the market and what is necessary to buy property. 

It's not a sob story. But I'm pretty tired of being judged on my accent and where I come from rather than for who I am. I couldn't give a toss about money. I place much more value in people I spend time with and the person I love. 

Ps for those who think Germany is amazing or rule abiding let me just tell you that I got off at treuchtlingen station at 11.30 this morning and noted that the station store (which had beer from the local brewery) closed on Friday's at 8pm. When I arrived back at 19.15 there was a changed sign with scribbled writing saying 'closed at 18uhr'. The hypocrisy here is staggering. 

                 Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 13:17:54

Very interesting, Jason.  I don't much about your family, certainly not that your father was an aspiring professional footballer - it's in the genes then, was he a goalkeeper?  I'm pretty sure that there's no one on this Forum who knows you thinks about your accent and where you come from, apart from, perhaps, being interested from the point of view of normal human curiosity.

You don't have to tell me about Beth's salary etc., I've just written a long rant on FB following on a piece by a doctor asking people not to clap on Thursdays (I'll not repeat it, it'll probably get around to you eventually - oh, it's just reached me!). As you know, I was married to a nurse for 47 years and so experienced all the hardships, financially and otherwise of their lives.

On a rather lighter and beerier note: I think that we've all got pretty used to the vagaries of German opening and shutting times!  But, Treuchtlingen made me think of the Wettelsheim keller, which I was fortunate to visit with Juergen.  I think the biggest Keller that I've visited and it was packed.  I didn't think that we'd get a seat but Juergen the charming sneaked us in somewhere and the service was amazing and quick.  The Maerzen was great and I've just looked at the website and it's still only €2,40/seidla.  Oh, and it has gorgeous views!

                   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason  on  2020-05-24 04:35:06

I wasn't only referring to the people on this Forum, and I am talking from experience: when I say I come from Jersey to someone from the mainland of the UK many think you grew up with a swimming pool a private yacht. I'm pretty sure that on one of the first ocassions I met Jacqueline I had the distinct impression she judged me very quickly on that, and that it took her quite a lot of time to warm to me. Beth's mother was the same (Liverpool) - she even mentioed to Beth that I was posh (in a joking kind of way). One is much more likely to notice these things when it is happening to you. 

My father was at Oldham Athletic and Southend United, but didn't make the cut and in those days it was no way to make a living in the lower leagues. He was a forward, later a centre back but never went in goal. Anyway, this whole situation is clearly sending us all a little round the bend. 

I was in Treuchtlingen with the express intension to visit the Wettelsheimer Keller. I was able to share a few pleasant beers with Juergen and though the weather wasn't quite as nice as it has been I had a great afternoon. Although it was a Friday (and after a public holiday that normally means most are off) it wasn't hugely busy. I really think people are reluctant to come out - as we mentioned earlier in this thread (I think???). 

The beer was very nice (a little flat). Lovely to have it gravity poured, but when the keller isn't so full it shows. A very impressive place indeed and highly recommneded. It's not THAT big though... would be interested to know how many people. I guess it's bigger than most kellers outside of Bamberg (city) and obviously Munich though. 

                     Jersey, etc. by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:14:32

On Jason being from Jersey and all that entails. It sounds like saying "I'm from Jersey" certainly conveys a different image to a Briton than saying "I'm from New Jersey" does to a Yank. I guess I would have imagined, based on what little I know of Jersey --and that being from German TV documentaries even before learning about it from Jason-- that it's not destitute but also not that it is overtly posh. Landed gentry that escaped the tyranny of life on the mainland, those that work for (and serve) them, and then the natives.  

How many generations do your Jersey roots go back, Jason? Just out of curiosity. I would still like to get out of my dad what he can tell me about my biological grandfather having been either an English "flyer" or aircraft designer, but he's not talking about it at this point. It would have been nice to have had a name to look up blood relatives when I was over there for 2-1/2 months this past autumn & winter. 

I would definitely say that you come across as laid back, but also well off. It's the way you present yourself. Your it typical Jersey? I guess I never thought you sounded anything like anything other than an educated southerner.

All this reminds me...I owe a couple of Thanet pubs some postcards. It was sad leaving them when I did.

                       Jersey, etc. by  Jason  on  2020-05-27 10:18:14

I'll come back to you Nick, but you'll understand if I prefer not to have topics purely on me. I know we're all friends on the forum but this is about Franconian beer :) 

I don't quite understand what you mean by "landed gentry"... it was traditionally a farming/fishing island that grew into a tourist destination after the war and then became a tax haven in the 60s and onward. Long story short, average house prices are now up at almost central London levels (outside of the extreme areas). I guess that doesn't make it posh (in the sense of Downton abbey for example), just hard to live there. It's also a very beautiful place when the sun shines, and the proximity to France and good climate gives it a continental feel. It obviously attracts well paid and well educated people. There are plenty of Ferrari's, Aston Martins and Porsche's flying around (though the speed limit does not exceed 40mph). 

As for roots, only my fathers mother was from jersey (with French roots), the rest come from Salisbury in the south (fathers father) and Manchester in the north (mothers parents). I don't know much else, and whilst I might be intrigued, it's quite an American thing to need to know your background... I think it's a bit like horoscopes. How we are brought up and how we live influences who we are, not where our forefathers came from. 

If I come across as well off then that's wrong (depending on what well off means to you). I am financially independent and have a good job but I'm certainly no higher than what would be called 'middle class'. I'm not on the housing ladder. My parents would never be able to help me with a deposit, nor would I expect/want them to. Maybe that's where my frustration with judgement comes from, my parents had to work hard to put me through a private school, they sacrificed a lot. You're right about my accent being generic southern educated. But Britain is obsessed with class and your accent is judged (I don't agree with it). Hence BBC English etc. 

Incidentally, my girlfriends step father is related to Ernest Hemingway and his father was a high court judge in the UK. He's well educated, has a very liberal outlook, an average/good job, a scouse accent and drinks tins of coors on the couch watching coronation street and likes going to the pub with his wife and friends. 

What does it all mean? Take people for who they are, not where they're from/their background. 

                         Jersey, etc. by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:32:01

Thanks for all that. Having met your parents just that one time (Annafest?), I wouldn't have presumed to say anything about their background. They certainly were down to earth. I liked your dad a lot. Struck me as almost a bit of a hippy. 

I didn't mean to question whether you were landed gentry...that was what I recall seeing on TV, years ago now. Or maybe it's that there was NOT much of that on Jersey. (I do miss German TV.)  I don't really get the Downton Abbey reference, as I've never seen it, but think I get the point. Coronation Street is blue collar TV, I reckon. I grew to like Coors Light a lot when I was in Vegas. 

You present yourself the way you do. I don't know if I have ever really known anyone British from above the middle class, and what I have learnt is that Britons have a talent for leaving class distinctions behind at the pub, or in similar social settings. What I'm getting at is, your manners and accent suggest middle class, at least, and knowing that you're financially independent by 30 doesn't suggest that you're not at least "OK off" by my definition.

Of course, anyone on here is fabulously rich compared to those starving in the desert.

Mom is one of 12 farm kids of German extraction (1/8th Czech). There were also 2 miscarriages, so my grandparents were busy. And Catholic. So very, very Catholic. Mom's maternal grandmother was supposedly descended of an ousted Baden-Wuerttemberger branch of the Hohen-Zollerns. So I might be somewhat more closely related to HRH Prince Phillip than others I know.

I suppose it is an American thing, wanting to know more about one's roots. People from the Bierkeller were always like, "Meh. We're from here." 

In my case, I've only recently learnt a bit more about my dad's biological parents, so I am more curious, as the guy was a British flyer. I would dearly like to know what relatives I have in Britain, as I like the place a fair bit.

                           Jersey, etc. by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 08:37:15

In my case, I've only recently learnt a bit more about my dad's biological parents, so I am more curious, as the guy was a British flyer. I would dearly like to know what relatives I have in Britain, as I like the place a fair bit.

I don't really have any connection to my dad's adoptive family. There were no kids my age; it's like the family was dying out.

And I met two girls from New Jersey on the golf course last evening, when I was walking my dog. They drove down to get away from all the "mess" up there.

Jersey was somehow important enough in the 1800s to get a whole state named after it!

           Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-22 11:57:57

One thing I'm trying to remind myself of is that we've only been in this situation for about 3 months and it has been a very slow three months.  So I think it's easy to be pessimistic about the future since it seems like on many days that this f@$%ing crisis will never end.  But it will end.  They always do.  I do and will wear my mask when needed using common sense.  I want to see Barry and Andy again at a Franken brewery and I believe I will.  Not making any predictions though other than as always I'm an optimist.  Sometimes to a fault.

             Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason on  2020-05-22 12:09:56

Mark always seems to bring a certain class to the conversation:) 

               Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-22 12:15:09

Well what I really want to say is .... if you're that sure that this is the end of life as we know it then what the hell are you doing sitting in your apartment winging.  Go out and get a hooker, some cocaine, a wagon full of booze and live it up!!

There now I ruined it for you.  But thanks anyhow. haha

                 Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 13:22:36

I was just going to say what kind of class when this arrived!

Seriously, I want to see all of the people that I've met from the Forum in a Keller again - and any ones that I haven't met.  None of Mark's suggestions are currently available, so I'm just going to have to have a beer!

                 Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-23 00:53:18

The Hooker just turned up driving the wagon,snorting Coke from the steering wheel. And the wagon is loaded with Franken beers. So, thanks for the suggestion Mark!

And likewise I look forward to meeting up with you all again in glorious Franconia.

Seriously? Jason. The accent, I dont think anybody has ever thought about it. Unlike Barrys clearly put on, Northern working class attempt.

                   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-23 02:28:03

I didn't know that I had an accent!

                     Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:19:47

Come to think of it, you don't have an accent -- everyone else does!

If I've never told this before, it's about the first time Becki & I visited Amsterdam after having learned German. I heard people speaking Amsterdammer(?) Dutch and thought, what's with these Americans speaking pigeon-German on acid?

                       Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Jason  on  2020-05-27 10:19:50

Barry has a soft mancunian lilt. He's from the posh part of Greater Manchester haha. 

                   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  barry roy taylor on  2020-05-23 03:56:17

For the moment, I thought that we had Erlangen Nick posting from Las Vegas!

Cheers Nick.

                   Current situation re openings / conditions  by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-23 11:32:34

I knew you would like my suggestion.  Did you show her your tongue and groove??  

Okay this is getting carried away already.  I'll stop now .....

   Current situation re openings / conditions ... Musings on Franconian Life by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-21 07:52:28

Thanks for the impressions, Jason.

Well, you're doing your part. It's a weird, weird time, as you and everyone on here knows. If virtually all the world's governments were not in on it, I would be more tempted to suspect a conspiracy or something. I guess.

My 13-day hospitalisation with viral pneumonia a year ago at the wonderful Uni-Klinik in Aachen (yay expensive "private" insurance with its preferential treatment over the sort-of-socialized version!) has also definitely served to affect my thinking on all of this. The specialists said I would've had it much worse had I not been so "young and fit", at 54. Well, I lost 10 pounds of hard-gained muscle while there. My lungs are still not 100%; will they ever recover? Did I actually have COVID? I should get myself tested for antibodies or whatever.

Anyway, I'm glad to have done what little part I did in helping you with your job there. Hope it's rewarding for you in addition to simply providing a means for you to live there. I'm glad you're enjoying life there so much, that you're so at home you refer to yourself as a Bamberger (implied in your post as "we", if not literally stated, "ich bin ein Bamberger"). I wish I had enjoyed life there *more* diversely than just drinking myself half under the table every single day. 

(Actually, I'm sure not all of the 10 pounds I lost was muscle, but I lost some, and I was pretty lean going in. Nearly as fit as I was when I was in Vegas after leaving Erlangen in 2018, the fittest I've ever been in my life, according to Becki.)

 Bierhaus Bamberg by  Jason on  2020-05-20 05:19:43

on the Obstmarkt has opened. Next to Café Zeis in what used to be the Irish pub. I'm sat outside near the water feature, as the inside isn't open yet. 

First impressions is it's tourist focused, as one would expect in this location. Prices are high as well, at 3.80€ a seidla, but there's a good choice of (mainly bottled) beers from around Franken. Nothing really special I would say, but I imagine there would be a lot of beer visitors who would want to spend an afternoon 'ticking' off some hard to reach breweries. The draft beer is Mahrs U, Kessmann Herren Pils, Huppendorfer Vollbier and Fässla lager. Bottled beers are from Bamberg and beyond eg Rittmayer, Weiherer, Held (a highlight), Wagner and Hummel, Krug, Knoblach and even Neder Export. 

I took a Herren Pils which isn't blowing me away, probably a little old as the tap isn't opening right now. But you can tell fhe taps are new as the pour is very good. Like I said, I can get a lot of what they sell for a fraction of the price from the supermarket, and I'm not a fan of drinking bottled beer in pubs. But for the visitor, its probably somewhere that would be interesting. For those on here who visit often, I think it would only be of passing interest. 

Shoild they get some more interesting draft beers my opinion might change. But still, would I rather come here than Spezi, Schlenkerla or some of the other great watering holes around? Competition is tough. 

   Bierhaus Bamberg by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 07:27:18

I remember sitting outside of there with a beer when it was an Irish pub!  I can't remember why or even what the beer was - it would not have been G!

     Bierhaus Bamberg by  TomM on  2020-05-20 09:47:42

When it was an Irish pub they had Kitzmann beers.

       Bierhaus Bamberg by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 13:29:12

Maybe that was it.  I think that it was just about my first visit to Bamberg, so I didn't really have much idea of what I was doing - nothing changes (said it before someone else does).

         Bierhaus Bamberg by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-20 20:59:18

I never went in there when it was an Irish pub.  Too many memories of American soldiers drunk on their asses on the sidewalk and MPs trying to control them.

           Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-21 07:23:04

How long ago might that have been? I used to hear stories of MPs (US military police in case someone doesn't know) busting heads randomly outside taverns in Erlangen and/or at the "Berch", but those days are long gone, as is the US Army.

Kitzmann? Who'd have thought?

PART of why I'm so fond of Kitzmann is from our (Becki & my) earliest days living there. Yes, it's not Bamberg, Yes, it's not the greatest brewery. Yes, Erlangen is nothing for tourists aside from those with an interest in their Hugenot heritage or wanting to see where MP3 was developed...but it was our new home. It was unique. It WASN'T where all the tourists went.

When we used to travel to Europe as American tourists, we enjoyed visiting places off the beaten path. Brugge, Amsterdam, Cologne, Duesseldorf, Munich and Vienna, yes, we spent time there, but also overnights in Koblenz, Wuerzburg, and even the dreaded Erl@ngen. We'd do day trips to small towns, to try to experience life outside the crush of tourists. Not that this has owt to do with the topic at hand, I guess I'm just writing for the sake of writing. Like the guy talking to himself in the corner of the pub, or even the dreaded pub bore.

Anyway, when we were looking at moving to Franconia for B's job at adidas, I started scouring the web for things about the area. Kitzmann came up, obviously, as did the Bergkirchweih/Berch. adidas put us up for 7 weeks in Herzogenaurach whilst we waited for the shipping container of our household stuff arrived ("don't ship anything irreplaceable in it like photos or documents, since containers can be dropped in the harbor during loading, or can fall off into the sea during a storm, take them with you on the plane", we were advised), during which time we tooled around by bus and train. They also gave us a company car, but were we going to drink and drive???

One weekend, we ended up exploring Erlangen a bit to find Kitzmann's Hoffest (brewery yard fest) going on in October or so. We had a hell of a fun time there, hearing stories and learning about Erlangen from locals (in English, this was before I learnt my Deutsch) and I kept my Masskrug with its elaborate Kitzmann decorative emblem. I still have it.

I embarrassed B tremendously by carrying it around with me, and certainly would have emptied it before getting on the 201 bus back to Herzo. (That reminds me, the old me used to get on her about calling it "Herzo", as that sounded too American...what a tool I am! No wonder so many of you can't stand me!) But we were a bit pissed and struggled to find the right bus stop outside what would eventually become the Arcaden. A nice girl walked us around to the right Haltestelle.

That Masskrug is in storage now, along with 52 years' worth of my life's accumulated crap, including a drumstick from Chad of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, from a concert in like 1988 or whenever he replaced their first drummer. They were still playing clubs at that point, before they made it big. Including my hand-built desktop computer and hard drives, on  which are Ninkasi-knows how many videos from German TV that I subtitled and loaded up to my old long-lost youtube account.

Meh. Back to working on my Java online course. Online thanks. Give me the old, pre-internet, print periodicals and books way of learning I was lucky enough to benefit from.

Oh, I never made it in that Irish pub either. I am impressed that Barry did. Das Bierhaus sounds like a nice addition. Bamberg is certainly a lovely place. Germans are lovely people, even die Franken. (Sorry Juergen!) 

             Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 02:20:44

It's good to hear a good old ramble, we're (sorry Fred, not a takeover) supposed to be virtual Stammtisch and that's what people do in pubs. I'm not sure that I went inside the Irish pub (generally, I avoid them like the plague), I think that we sat outside by that pond thing. We arrived towards the end of the US forces time in Bayern and I can't recall seeing any on the streets, certainly not getting their heads bashed in - or otherwise.

               Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-22 12:19:28

I went into that Irish pub once and it was fairly quiet but I had heard from my friend that was in the Army and lived on the base in Bamberg for a year that it could get rowdy there and at the Green Goose around the corner from time to time.  I never saw any of that myself though.  Met and had a beer or two with a few soldiers over the years there and they always seemed to be fairly polite and mostly in control.  It was funny though one time when a couple of them sitting next to me at the bar asked me where the best pickup joints were that they could find willing ladies.  I just told them if they had a question about beer let me know.  I could not help them with that information.

                 Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-22 15:25:34

Ah, the Green Goose.  I think I am confusing Green Goose with the "Irish Pub".

                   Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-23 04:36:48

Yeah I think the Green Goose was a more notorious as a hangout for US military. Although they did frequent the Irish pub around the corner too.  But if you saw shenanigans it most likely was coming from the Green Goose.

                     Bierhaus Bamberg...back to Erl@ngen & K!tzm@nn by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-23 06:51:07

I don't recall a Green Goose (a relative of a green duck?), where was/is it? 

                       Green Goose by  FredW on  2020-05-23 08:44:53

It was downstairs, the entrance right next to the hat shop on the end of the Untere Brücke (Lange Strasse side). I think they had a display board with bottles of Corona and Deperados. I never went but from what I was told it was mostly US soldiers and those who wanted to meet them. Closed soon after the base did.

                         Green Goose by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-23 11:36:50

It was part of dive bar chain that catered to US miliary bases in Germany.  I know they also had a Green Gose in Nuremberg, Wurzburg, and I think a couple of others.  Not sure why I know so much about the Green Goose?  Curiosity I guess.  I actually once found a forum on Facebook for US miliitary people formerly based in Germany to reminisce about the good times at whatever Green Goose they used to frequent.  Clearly these establishments were beloved by military personnel.


                           Green Goose by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-23 11:37:34

Ooops, I typed Gose instead of Goose.  A sign maybe that I need a beer

                             Green Goose by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-23 16:24:06

Yeah, that secion of Lange Strasse had the Green Goose, the Irish Pub, and all those Dõner shops that catered to the troops.  

                           Green Goose by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 07:53:21

Were you in the military Mark?

I (surprise!) wasn't. I wasn't oriented that way. I wish I had been though. Meh.

My tales of MP's bashing heads is from the days before the massive tank base closed up in Erlangen, which happened in 93 or 94. And thinking harder on a couple of conversations, I think things calmed down a lot by the late 80s. The rowdiness was in the 70s and 80s.

                             Former military bases (was Green Goose) by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:42:42

The US Army tank base was given back to the city of Erlangen in 93 or 94. It was then meticulously developed into Siemens facilities, residential and other commercial use. Where our townhouse/rowhouse/Reihenhaus stood was previously a massive slab of concrete where tanks were parked. It would certainly have been a target for tactical nuclear weapons, if not longer-range missiles planted in the USSR.

I used to wonder if there wasn't some forgotten Soviet missile, programmed for Willy-Brandt-Strasse 16 somewhere in Russia. 

Post-WWII barracks were renovated into cheap housing, and older, 19th-century cavalry buildings were developed into posh housing.

The woods a couple hundred metres from our 'hood, at the edge of town, are heavily used for recreation. There are signs up warning of buried munitions, and not to stray from the trails. They used to conduct exercises with live ammo in there, from which there are a number of concrete slabs remaining in the woods. 

And there are what look like old missile bunkers in there. They're still fenced in, but not actively guarded, of course. I don't know how to find out if there ever were missiles stationed there. Anyone? 

They could be bunkers for something else, I guess, or maybe they were used for exercises, pretending they were Soviet targets.

I miss those woods. Heck, being in flat Florida now, I miss even the little bits of hills we had there.


                               Former military bases (was Green Goose) by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-27 08:50:06

To make it beer related...what is now Unicum was formerly the officer's club. It is the only proper Biergarten on the site, and we were delighted when they switched from Zirndorfer to ...erm... a pale unfiltered Vollbier from a little brewery in the fraenkischen Schweiz. Damn me for forgettin which one now.

The food took a turn for the better in about 2016 when a Turkish family took it over, adding a good steak and very decent burgers (for European standards) to the menu.

Man, that was a nice little life there, free of the crush of tourists typical of certain other nearby cities' Biergaerten (plural).

                             Green Goose by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-27 11:07:03

No I was never in the military.  I flirted with the idea around the age of 18 but never followed through with it.  I did have a friend that lived on the base in Bamberg.  Actually you met him and his wife, and me at Roppelt's Keller one day many years ago.  2009 I think?  Anyhow I got an interesting tour of the base from them that year. 

         Bierhaus Bamberg by  FredW on  2020-05-22 12:23:29

I was once in that Irish pub: It was when I was going to German school (Treffpunkt) and was invited to go out drinking with some of the teachers. The pub had some sort of late night happy hour with cheap shots (€1?) and we got there soon after it started. The teachers all had 2-3 shots while I nursed one smiley

           Bierhaus Bamberg by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-22 12:48:59

I remember Stefan Krug telling me that the owner of the Irish Pub lived in Geisfeld. Whether or not he still does is anyone's guess. I, like Barry, don't go to Irish bars when I'm abroad. One of the reasons I travel is to get away from them!

             Bierhaus Bamberg by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 13:25:08

And I still feel the same even though I don't live in Ireland now!  And would also run a mile from an English, Scottish or Welsh bar (specially in Spain).

 Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Jason  on  2020-05-18 02:58:06

*written from the Hof in Spezial - at last*

I had some bottles of the Kellerbier from ebensfeld yesterday, and although it's always been excellent at the Keller, it was almost even better. And what's more, 'only' 4.5% and it didn't taste like it was a lot more. 

Not a brewery that's oft mentioned in the highest terms but perhaps things have changed or maybe it's always been a little under that radar. 

   Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-18 08:40:16

The Hof in're really teasing us now Jason. We can only dream.

   Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-18 10:14:06

65 days since I was in a pub, so very envious. How is it working? How are numbers being restricted? Is everyone wearing a mask? And is it waiter service? Are some kellers open? Our June trip is obviously lost, but daring to hope we might be able to visit towards the end of the year as long as theres no second wave.

   Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-18 10:36:04

I thought Schwann were no longer brewing?

     Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-18 12:13:51

They never stopped.  It was just the Gastatte that closed for a while.

       Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-18 12:40:27

Oh! i see.

   Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Nor on  2020-05-18 14:53:19

I've never had it myself, but Andy has recommended it plenty of times as one of the best Franconian Kellerbiers. Hoping to have a few later this year.

     Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-18 15:32:42

You all should remember that I've banged on about Ebensfelder Bier for years! People always thought I was mad staying so far out of Bamberg but you see ...

I know that I introduced Andrew to the delights of the Schwann (do you remember the talkative young chap?) and I think Dave as well?  Sadly, the pub has been shut for more than a year now, as no one seems able to make it pay.  It's quite a big place and a bit of the beaten track and they don't really sell the delights of the beer that strongly.  There's quite a lot of competition for good beer in the area but, IMHO, it's more or less as good as most.  Ebensfeld seems to be one of those places where businesses really struggle to survive - the Italinan restaurant was closed for a while and the ice-cream parlour is also shut.  And also that big pub in the middle of town - can't remember its name but it was on the market for €300,000 and no takers.

There's not much retail left now, only a butcher, a couple of delicatessens and a baker.  Oh and a couple of pharmacists, a DIY place and a motor-bike dealer.  It also has two large supermarkets, a Norma and a REWE with a biggish Getraenkmarkt (think that's right).

Actually, for quite a small town, that seems quite a lot but it doesn't feel like it when you're there.  Fortunately, the Keller is really nice and well attended - and, of course, exfellent Ebensfelder Kellerbier!

PRO for Ebensfeld!

       Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-19 05:31:05

I can see the advantages of Ebensfeld unless you're one of those people, like myself, that likes to carry on after the sun goes down and then it's clearly not the place to be.  But it is on the rail line, is a walk or a nice bike ride from several nice breweries, and has a nice bier keller serviing the local kellerbier.  Despite going through there 4 or 5 times over the years is wasn't until last years visit that I finally made it to the keller and I agree it's really nice.  I did stop at the gastatte a few years back after discovering by suprise that it had reopened.  It was okay but I'd rather go to the keller anyhow.

       Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Jason on  2020-05-20 01:30:53

Barry I don't think I've ever heard you 'bang on about Ebensfelder beer'. In fact I recall you often saying it's one of the negative sides of being there (not bad, but not special). In recent visits you've praised the Keller, rightly so. And I don't think the beer has always been good, certainly going back a few years it was not highly regarded. 

I do recall you saying how good a place ebensfeld is to stay (for you) and the many breweries in the area that are relatively easy to access. You also really like the place you stay and the people who run it. 

         Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 02:44:06

Good grief, Jason, the piece wasn't intended to be dissected so minutely!  I've been banging on about Ebensfeld for a long time and that included the beer sufficiently for Andy and, I'm pretty sure, Dave, to make a lunchtime trip to try - long before the Keller's opening time! 

I'm pretty sure that I've never said that the quality of the beer is a negative side - my main complaint has been that the pub has been shut more times than it's been open - specially as it's right outside my front door!  I can't remember off-hand when I first tried the beer in the pub - initially it was in the Keller because the pub wasn't open but it's always been pretty reasonable in the pub - not world-class but ok and as good as most local breweries.  You can quote me on that!

I do remember saying to someone (probably not you) that I couldn't understand why they didn't sell the beer a bit harder - it is practically unknown and few people that I know have ever tried it.  

Good to hear that, at least, the Spezial Hof is open, take care and enjoy!

           Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Jason on  2020-05-20 05:23:27

Just a gentle wind up Barry. But the point was that what I had from the bottle was excellent not in relation to what it was, but in relation to local breweries. If it was always that good I would rate it in my top 5 Kellerbiers. I might go to the Keller on Friday to test it out. Maybe I was just caught up in the moment. 

             Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 07:25:00

No problem - I wish that I could get that sort of feedback on my published books!

I'm not so good at rating beer and I'm not sure whether there's any real purpose.  When I stayed in Doerfleins many years ago, I didn't think that Eichorn was that great - perhaps because it didn't seem to be the most hospitable of pubs.  I thought that the beer was ok but that was it.  Now, with an awful lot of Franken beer under the belt and a much better understanding of its nuances (plus a bit of gentle persuasion), I do agree with you that the beer is really excellent (and the pub seems a tad more friendly!).  

I've said many times that I'm a places person as much as a taste person - I like to drink a beer in a place with an agreeable atmosphere with sociable company.  I could never be one of those people who wander around the world ticking off the beers that they've tried.  Maybe that's why I like Eschawo so much - from my first visit, I met friendly people and there's something about the ethos of Zoigl that appeals to me.

Re the Englehardt Keller: I'm not sure that the beer is something really special but it's a lovely place, specially on a warm summer's night.  Better stop now, I'm getting depressed!

               Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Jason on  2020-05-20 09:46:16

I've always enjoyed the Kellerbier there, but I've only been going the last 2 years or so. 

I'm currently at the Gambrinus Keller in Unterhaid. First time I've been, friend recommended the Hausbräu beer, brewed to an old recipe from the old Gambrinus brewery at Reckendorf. It's an unfiltered pils, could be a Kellerbier but it is very hoppy. I imagine it's lagered here. Thick head of foam, big bitterness. The Keller itself is a very historic example of over 120 years. Really very pleasant. If the brewery in Appendorf was still open you could combine this with a walk there for example. I don't think it's worth coming here without a bike really, unless you have time here. If you do it's definitely worth it for an historic Keller experience. 

                 Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 13:27:45

I'm a bit confused - so who's actually brewing this beer?

At first I thought that you were refering to Hannia Keller between Doerfleins and Oberhaid but now I see your Keller on the map.  It's only 6 or so Kms from Doerfleins, so walkable.

                   Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Jason  on  2020-05-21 01:37:03

Yes, or get off the train at Oberhaid and it's an even shorter walk. could also be combined with a visit to Stettfeld. 

There used to be a brewery in Unterhaid called Gambrinus. As far as I understand/been told, the beer is brewed to its original recipe by Schlossbrauerei Reckendorf. It's called Hausbraeu, which usually means it's taken from the brewery young and lagered in the cellar of the Keller. The head on the beer was quite magnificant on all 3 I had: big rocky foam which stayed right until the end, perhaps another indication of a good lagering time (maybe just becasue the kellers have opened later). 

I would definitely recommend a visit if you're in the area. Again, if you're in Bamberg for only a matter of days, as this requires an investment of time unless you have a bike/driver, I wouldn't worry. 

                     Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Andrew H on  2020-05-21 01:45:37

Dont forget to have a fine tasting bier at Wagner brau Oberhaid,to set you up for the walk.

                     Gambrinus by  FredW on  2020-05-21 06:55:15

Back in 2007 the place in Unterhaid was called "Brauhaus Gambrinus" and their house beer was brewed at Maisal Bamberg. It was a nice stop on a bike ride to Stettfeld.

When Maisel closed they started to serve Schlossbrauerei and about a year after that it changed it's name to "Gaststätte Gambrinus." I've always wondered if Schlossbrauerei made them do that. Initially I seem to remember at that time they were only serving Reckendorf branded beers (no house beers) but I haven't been in a while as I had no need for those when Stettfeld was waiting...

                       Gambrinus by  Andrew H on  2020-05-22 00:31:39

Interesting Fred, on my last visit with several other message board contributers.The beer was truly awful. So sort of proves that irony does not really work in print!

                         Gambrinus by  Jason on  2020-05-22 05:57:04

Not to insult your intelligence, but are you not referring to Wagner in OBERhaid? I doubt you'd mix it up, but I can't imagine that 2 villages next to each other in Franconia could both have terrible beer.

                           Gambrinus by  Andrew H on  2020-05-23 01:04:18

I dont know now Jason, Barrys post refers to Oberhaid, and your post refers to getting off the train at Oberhaid. So thoroughly confused now.indecision

           Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-22 13:15:33

You're spot on there Barry. I visited Ebensfelder Brauhaus, met you there, had a very tasty lunch washed down with a couple of their beers which, from memory, were good (that day). You then encouraged me to go to Forchheim, Greif then Neder for desert!  Memories of a great day out in the company of a gent from North Wales.

             Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-22 13:26:25

Thank you, David, you're so kind!  But the feeling is mutual, hope we can do Forchheim together one day soon.

       Ebensfelder Brauhaus Kellerbier  by  Nick B (ex-ErlangerNick) on  2020-05-21 07:30:58

Keep up the good work, Barry!

 OT: Beers of Europe by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-15 11:51:49

I've now had 3 orders, with slightly mixed results. First and most important, all the beers have been very good - that means their condition because, for me, most Belgian beers are great anyway. The only 2 I wasn't really keen on were the 2 guezes, the Morte Subite, well it is a mass produced cheapie but the Boon oude Gueze was disappointing, quite a strange taste IMHO. Otherwise, mainly Trappists, which I love - probably my favourite beers (sorry Juergen und alles). As for B of E, delivery times were ok, 3 to 4 days, & the first order was perfect. But the second went a bit astray! First up, I got a phone call from B of E to say that the carrier got my order mixed up with another one (I am bit sceptical) but they would exchange. Well the correct one arrived but the carrier just left it on my doorstep and didn't pick up the wrong one! I could have had both but, being 'honest John', I told B of E and the carrier collected the wrong one. Now third order: when I opened the box, I found that there was no Abbaye des Rocs but 3 Rochefort 8s instead! Not a bad swap as it's one of my favourites and actually more expensive - as they pointed out! So, I'd say about 6 out of 10. I've now tried the St Bernardus 6, 8 and 12. The 12 is a really class act - Imho one of the best ales I've tasted and the other 2 aren't 2 shabby either. More tonight!

   OT: Beers of Europe by  Jason on  2020-05-16 01:40:34

Always said SB 12 was ridiculously underrated... and 3 Rocheforts in place of Abbaye de Rocs is a win! 

You're a harsh critic Barry. 6/10? 

ps Jürgen und alle (alles means everything)) 

     OT: Beers of Europe by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-16 03:13:11

All the SB beers were excellent, I tried the 3 in ascending order of strength - and then went to bed!

As well as my tried and trsuted old friends, I've tried to mix in a few that I'm not familiar with - de Rocs was one of those.  6/10 - that was only meant for B of E delivery performance, which was a bit up and down but I would accpet that this must be a pretty hectic time for them, so maybe 7!  As for for the beers 10/10 in condition.

Everybody = perhaps Jeder or Alle?

       OT: Beers of Europe by  Carl on  2020-05-16 08:59:10

If you get a chance, stay at the "hotel" on the grounds of Saint Bernardus.
We stayed there once, and:
Great room;
Great breakfast;;
Bikes available for rent;
Very rural area, flat, very little traffic, easy to ride;
Only about 10 miles from Westvleteran (St Sixtus) and their fabulous restaurant, allegedly the only place you can buy their beers;
Interesting Hop Museum in nearby Popringe;
Lots of WWI history all around.

St Bernardus used to make the beers for St Sixtus, until the "Trappist Organization" told St Sixtus they had to brew their own to sell it as Trappist beer.
St Bernardus Abt 12 (and maybe their others) are almost the same recipe as Westvleteran 12.
We had a side-by-side tasting at St Bernardus, and they are VERY similar.

         OT: Beers of Europe by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-17 03:21:59

Maybe one day I'll get to stay there. So many places to go and not much chance of going. At the moment, I can't even go to Llandudno!

       OT: Beers of Europe by  Jason on  2020-05-16 10:42:44

Well that's a bit of an improvement, and fair enough with de rocs. 

Re jeder... I'm not sure I would use it as a stand-alone word. Jede/r/n/m etc is used in the context of 'each' or 'every'. It's an adjective and a pronoun, so you'd write (in jeder Lebenslage : in every sitiuation. Or ' Jeder hat sein Lieblings Bier' : everyone has their favorite Bier. I wouldn't use it as a way to say 'everyone' on its own though. I would use alle. But I'm not German. 

 Which breweries ~3,5%-4% would you like to try? by  Jor on  2020-05-09 13:19:14

Picking up on Jasons earlier remark - there are obviously very few beers below 4,5% in Franconia. Czech has a wonderful, yet slightly obscured culture of lower strength beer between 3-4,5%, some reaching as high as 13 Plato (U Fleku, meaning you).

Which Franconian brewery would you like to see a 3-4,5% beer?
Believing it would be great.

   Which breweries ~3,5%-4% would you like to try? by  Jor on  2020-05-09 13:29:03

Schlenkerla and Spezial are clearly competent enough, as are others. I imagine a lower strength Herrenpils could struggle to still hold my interest for long. But beyond competency, if fresh, I'd love to try the Hallerndorfs beers at lower strength. Especially Lieberth and Roppelt, curious about Witzgall, but never having had Landbier from draft I imagine it shines at its slightly 'elevated' strength. Yet a good option.
As much as I love Eichhorn, they'd have to redial considerably I believe. Assuming we're talking about gravity dispense for the final beer, Griess. I'd love to try. FInd that beer particulary complex yet at ease, to the point it could excel in the UK. A sub 4% take could be very interesting. Scharpf could land a surprise, outstanding surprise, I think. For different reasons, but equally could a few of the darker Kellers from the Franconian Schweiz!

Exciting question. Gonna try to bring it up on the next trip!

     Which breweries ~3,5%-4% would you like to try? by  Jason  on  2020-05-10 06:17:11

I'm not quite sure why Eichhorn would have to "redial considerably"... care to elaborate? Their Kellerbier is very hoppy (less than Griess though). The dunkel is a masterpiece and if done well, could potentially be reproduced at 4,5% (think it's around 6% now). 

I don't really have an angle on this question... any brewery could brew a beer at 4%, I don't see some being better at it than others. I don't see the skills or techniques here to be honest. Maybe it's to do with decoction mashing but Czech lagers are just so much more maltier than even Franconian beers. It gives it much more body, allowing generous hopping without you ending up with a Herren pils. 

Ive never been quite so enamored with Witzgall as some people seem to be. Don't get me wrong it's a good beer. But I just don't get excited by it. Scharpf are always good, but again, I'm not sure why they would be any better than any other brewery. 

       Which breweries ~3,5%-4% would you like to try? by  Nor on  2020-05-22 03:26:20

In my imaginary I've started with one of a breweries beers trying to extrapolating a lower strength version. Not thinking of a brewers skills or other beers. I'd expect Eichhorn to produce a fantastic ~3,5% one, as as you say the Dunkel kinda offers itself.
My thoughts started with the Eichhorn Kellerbier, which is excellent, and far 'leaner' than many other Franconian Kellers in my opinion. Some beers are 'fat' in that they offer much space for batch variation and shine regardless, either due to sturdy build or fall-back components. From my experience and lots of mind roaming licence, these beers tend to be easier to move in strength. Leaner ones are far more non-linear. But thats all hypothethical deluxe speculation to grow interest!

Curious to know who else is open already, Jason. Monchsambacher, Griess, .. all still seem to be closed. Roppelt (Stierliembach) appears open, maybe Lieberth too? Would make a nice cycling trip!

     Which breweries ~3,5%-4% would you like to try? by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-05-10 12:29:40

The darker ones from "Little Swiss Franconia" would be the ones I'd like to see at lower strength, if I were there now. 

 Heinzlein by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-08 05:01:50

Has anyone come across Heinzlein Bier. Brewed by Brauerei Heller Trum, Bamberg and at only 0.9% abv it's probabaly one for the Franconia temperance forum and not this one. 

   Heinzlein by  Edo van Bree on  2020-05-08 06:53:38

i know it as Hansla. I've tasted it in Plzen, a German friend brought a fresh bottle. It was excellent, especially for a low alcohol beer.

     Heinzlein by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-05-08 08:21:55

At the website of Schlenkerla the name is Hansla.
„Schlenkerla Rauchbier Hansla“

The name on the labels of the bottles is Heinzlein.

I don't know why the nme has changed. Maybe problems with a trademark Hansla?
Someone could ask Matthias Trum privately.

„Schlenkerla Rauchbier Hansla“

       Heinzlein by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-05-08 08:43:06

It could have been an argument with HANSA, a beer trademark from Dortmund.
HANSA and Hansla are different but similar (risk of confusion)

But this is only my suggestion, no knowledge.

Some images of  HANSA cans and botttles.

         Heinzlein by  Carl on  2020-05-08 08:50:38

It appears to me Hansla and Heinzlein are different beers.
I had a Hansla from the bottle at the Schlenkerla pub in October.
(During my stay in Bamberg, I drank every offering Schlenkerla had available.  And Spezial, and Fassla, and, and, and ...)
It was definitely a smoked beer.  It was OK, but I'm not sure I could drink it on a regular basis, especially with their other offerings available.
As far as I can tell on the Heinzlein site, the two versions don't mention smoke.

           Heinzlein by  Jason  on  2020-05-09 02:00:57

Just to clarify, they are both different beers. Schlenkerla Hansla is 1,2% alcohol and is part of the Schlenkerla brand and therefore is brewed using smoked malt. Heinzlein are (2) beers brewed to 'traditional' recipes, a Helles and a Dunkles, from the late 1800s. They are brewed at Schlenkerla. Apparently, in those days brewed for the agricultural sector as a way of allowing people to drink 'beer' but stay sober, on account of the poor water quality. I'm not sure who 'owns' the brand, but the website is quite swanky, so I'm guessing Brauerei Heller. The water is much better now, so I'm not sure of the reasoning behind the resurrection.

I haven't tried them, and I probably never will. If there is one critiscism about the beer in Franconia (and Germany in general), it is that the beer is too strong. There are well known examples such as Moenchsambacher lager and Heckel Vollbier which push 6%, but even less extreme examples rarely come in below 5% (remember what is on the label/advertised as the alcohol content can be as much as 10% lower than the reality). Maybe it's my British beer background, but I don't know why a low alcohol beer has to fall to such ridiculously low levels (aside from the term low alcohol - I mean just lower alcohol). 

The Czechs manage to brew some amazing beers at 4%, and I've even had outstanding 3% lagers. Now, I'm sure these are hard to brew and require some real skill, but they are very enjoyable to drink earlier in the day or if you're up for a session but don't necessarily want to get drunk. The only option here is either add water/lemonade or drink something like Hansla. Of course the Schlenkerla Helles is 4.3% and the news that it's now available on draft in the pub (I believe, haven't been in much lately) is a plus. But to be honest if I was there I would always drink the Maerzen.

I'm sure there are socio-economic reasons why beer is stronger in some places than others. Industry, war time reductions and tax systems certainly played a big part in the evolution of Britain's modern beer culture. Clearly in the US the trend for session drinking was lost due to prohibition or was never there, it's more like Belgium where people drink 3-4 strong beers in an evening (I'm generalising). I read somewhere that at the turn of the 19th Century the beer drunk by the mass in Munich was actually only around 4% in alcohol. In Britain at the time I don't think you'd have got much below 6%. 

             Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-09 04:34:32

Our in-house brewer (sort of), the much revered Andrew,always says the real art of a brewer is to brew a lower gravity beer that tastes good (please correct if I'm misquoting you Andy, because I quote this all the time!).  As I understand it, the reasoning is that anyone can brew a tasty beer just by chucking in loads of ingredients (one of the reasons why I'm not keen on adjuncts, like coffee, etc.) but it takes real skill to make something that tastes good with just hops, barley and yeast (and water, of course).

My early beer drinking experience was in the late 50s/early 60s in Manchester and the normal bitter was generally between 3.5 and 4.2%, with mild, which I drank as much as bitter, between 3 and 3.5%.  Now it's quite unusal to find a bitter at less than 4.5% and not unusual to find cask beers at over 6%.  I don't realy understand why Franken vom Fass beers are so strong (are any under 4.8%, apart from the Schlenkerla Helles?) and, IMHO, really to strong for a session - but, then, I can't drink as much beer now as I used to be able to.

Conversely, I love Belgian Abbey and Trappist beers and have just ordered my third batch from Beers of Europe, including a few St Bernardus Abt 12's!  But this is for sitting at home and having a couple of bottles in a night drinking not for sitting for a night in a pub!

And I absolutely concur about Czech lagers, so it seems perverse that the new Czech breweries are now brewing high octane ales!  It's the trend, I suppose.

               Heinzlein by  Andrew H on  2020-05-09 12:12:59

No misquote Barry, well, What I have said is that in my humble opinon It is very hard to hide any faults or misbrews in a low gravity uncomplicated ale. Whereas it is very easy to brew a high gravity, highly hopped, ale and hide a multitude of off flavours.
Just a thought (pure speculation) could the reason for the strenght of Franken beers be a Lenten thing? It does seem to be a very Catholic area. 

                 Heinzlein by  Jason  on  2020-05-09 12:29:33

Andrew certainly has said it, but he isn't the only one of course. I remember watching a video where the brewer from Schoenram said that the brewing a quality Helles is the hardest style. The beer is naked, and faults cannot be hidden. 

Re Barry's question of beers under 4,8%, Spezial Lager is 4,7% (on draft, bottled it's 4,9%). But again, these are advertised strenths, BUT again (again), I drink a lot of it and, if it's not 4,7%, it's not far off. I recall thoroughly enjoying Reuter (Unterbibert) Vollbier Dunkel with Juergen and it was around 4,2% - an outstanding beer, sadly no longer with us. 

And on the matter of Czechs brewing 'high octane ales' I would say that it's the same logic as you enjoying your Belgium ales at home but not in the pub - there's a beer for every and any ocassion and a taste to enjoy it - it's not everyone'e taste, but even I sometimes imbibe on an IPA in Prague if i've been drinking lagers all day. 

Re Andrew's question, I'm not sure what you mean about Lenten? Of course beers are stronger around this time (Fastenbier etc), but I don't think this has any bearing on what is brewed through the rest of the year. It's a bit like bock beer in Autumn, or Christmas beer in the UK (Festbiers, like Harveys or Bathams). 

It's certainly a Catholic area, the most Catholic in Bavaria. I keep asking what the church has done during this crisis, as it's now allowed to hold services (?!!). Maybe they have donated millions to the health services but have been very quiet about it. Or maybe they've done sod all.  I have my opinion. 

                   Heinzlein by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-09 16:37:46

Maybe they've been praying for us all. 

                   Heinzlein by  Andrew H on  2020-05-10 03:28:56

I was thinking that maybe the locals developed a taste for stronger beers after the strong beers brewed for lent? A bit random really lol
Something I have observed on film,and in the brewhouse of some of the Braueries still using petty old equipment (and brewers) is that they do not always take a lot of care measuring and checking, and will err on the side of a "bit more is better" or " That will be ok" .

                     Heinzlein by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-19 02:05:39

I get a chuckle out of these discussions about how "strong" Franconian beers are.  One of the reasons I love drinking beer in Franconia is that most of the lagers are what I would call "modest" alcohol at ca. 4.5-5.5% ABV.  As Jason noted above, the trend in the USA has been toward 6% and higher ABVs for many years now.  That being said, I would welcome a 4% lager in Bamberg.

I will also give Hansla and Heinzlein a try if I ever get the opportunity.


                       Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-19 02:48:23

I wonder why this is in the U.S.A.?  Not too dissimilar in the U.K. but hardly surprising as, in popular culture, the U.K. increasingly seems like the U.S.A. (IMHO)

                       Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-19 02:48:24

I wonder why this is in the U.S.A.?  Not too dissimilar in the U.K. but hardly surprising as, in popular culture, the U.K. increasingly seems like the U.S.A. (IMHO)

                         Heinzlein by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-19 05:50:17

I'm not sure if even understand it myself or can explain it but I guess it has something to do with us being a much more mobile/transient, less attentive, less tradition based culture than Franconia.  Loads of new breweries.  All of them feel obligated to have at least 10 or so different beers on tap with most of them being extreme otherwise they'll lose the interest of their consumers.  Constant changing of styles and experimentation.  And yet as hard as all these "craft" breweries try to be different I don't think they realize just how alike they all really are.  I swear they even play the same annoying musical soundtracks in their taprooms.  That's the dark side of it.  On the bright side some really great breweries and beers do emerge out of all of this.  Like Allagash in Maine for example and I've been really enjoying their beers lately.

                           Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-20 03:01:43

From talking to you and other U.S. beer experts, I get the impression that the new wave of craft breweries from - when, the 1970s? - really created a new market based not on the older diehard drinkers of fizzy-pop beer but young people looking for something a bit different.  Of course, some of those young people are a bit longer in the tooth now (no names, no pack drill) but the marketing that I see nowadays still seems aimed at a younger market and one that tends to be more eager for experimentation.  There's something about the high gravity beers that seems to appeal to younger people.  I don't know whether it is seen as a challenge - something like the way we used to boast about going out and drinking copious quantities - but I see it specially in my local micro, 'The Black Cloak', which somehow manages to balance being a place that attracts the younger 'craft beer' enthusiasts as well as a few of us old codgers.  Almost without exception, the younger clients drink the high gravity craft beers while the older ones favour the lower gravity cask ales.

I know in the Red Lion, which has, in general, an older clientele, there is a tendency for the older generation (most of my drinking companions) to favour the well-known brands, some of which are really a pale shadow of their former selves.  But one or two of the older breweries still retain more than a vestige of their old quality: Timmy Taylor's and Fuller's (even with the Ashai takeover) come to mind.  It's just a pity that Sam Smith's don't sell beer away from their own pubs, of which there are, sadly, none in North Wales - or maybe it's not.

But, yes, it's also true in Britain that recent developments have thrown up (unfortunate choice of words!) some outstanding new breweries - Kelham Island, Purple Moose, Stockport and Joule's (revived) come to mind easily among my favourites but there are plenty more. 

                             Heinzlein by  Barm on  2020-05-20 16:00:10

What is the retail price of this stuff?
It seems to me the ingredients don't make up very much of the cost of a bottle of beer, and all the other costs are the same, so it can't be substantially cheaper.
Is it bottom-fermented?

                               Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-21 02:44:48

Sorry, I don't understand your question: is what bottom-fermented and what difference does it make?  What's the cost/selling price got to do with this discussion?

                                 Heinzlein by  Barm on  2020-05-22 13:16:52

Is Heinzlein, the beer this thread is about, bottom-fermented? Seems a reasonable enough question to me. Bottom-fermentation is relevant because it would need to spend longer in tank, increasing the production cost.

                                   Heinzlein by  FredW on  2020-05-22 13:18:56

I expect it is -- so far every beer they brew is bottom fermented (the Weizen is brewed elsewhere)

                                     Heinzlein by  Barm on  2020-05-23 05:40:19

I am just wondering because they were talking about how it is supposedly a throwback to olden days when weak beer (what the Germans would call Nachbier or Covent and the English called small beer) was a commonplace drink for hydration purposes. Every such beer I have heard of was top-fermenting.

                                       Heinzlein by  Barm on  2020-05-23 08:12:41

By coincidence the other day Ron Pattinson posted an extract from the classic "Obergärige Biere und ihre Herstellung" by Schönfeld where the author claims that bottom-fermenting yeast struggles in low-gravity worts:

"The period of the increase was due to war regulations. The lack of raw materials increasingly forced gravities to be reduced. In order to save malt and barley, it had to be constantly stretched. With the reduction to 6%, there were no difficulties with bottom fermentation with regard to yeast propagation, maturation and fermentation. When, according to further regulations, beers with a wort content of more than 5% were not allowed to be produced and the breweries were forced under the constraints of the circumstances to lower the wort content to 4%, then to 3% and finally even further, bottom-fermenting yeast started to fail. It hardly supplied the required amount of spores for its own business, sat down hastily without having gotten into sufficient fermentation and lay loosely on the ground."
"Obergärige Biere und ihre Herstellung" by Dr. Franz Schönfeld, 2nd edition, Verlag von Paul Parey, Berlin, 1938, page 131.

                                         Heinzlein by  FredW on  2020-05-23 08:49:54

As I said, I have no information one way or the other, but Matthias Trum is on Facebook and faily approachable. You might ask him.

                                           Heinzlein is bottom fermented by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-30 12:00:37

I messaged Matthias Trum on FB.  Heinzlein is brewed by Hellerbräu, but is not related to Schlenkerla since it is not a smoked beer. The brewing technique is based on an old family recipe from his Great Great Great Grandfather.

"The Heinzlein is now available in Bamberg as pale and dark version, with others possibly to follow, since the brewing technique can be applied to pretty much every style. The pale and the dark are bottom-fermented."

                             Heinzlein by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-20 19:23:25

"But, yes, it's also true in Britain that recent developments have thrown up (unfortunate choice of words!) some outstanding new breweries - Kelham Island, Purple Moose, Stockport and Joule's (revived) come to mind easily among my favourites but there are plenty more. "

Like the Green Duck?  hahaha.  Sorry couldn't resist.  Just kidding.

                               Heinzlein by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-21 01:01:49

Naughty, naughty. But each to his/her own. Wouldn't win a lot of prizes for decor, unless you like drinking in modern industrial units!

                   Most Catholic Area in Bavaria by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-06-03 09:33:13

Re Andrew's question, I'm not sure what you mean about Lenten? Of course beers are stronger around this time (Fastenbier etc), but I don't think this has any bearing on what is brewed through the rest of the year. It's a bit like bock beer in Autumn, or Christmas beer in the UK (Festbiers, like Harveys or Bathams). 

It's certainly a Catholic area, the most Catholic in Bavaria.

This is going back a bit, but anyway...Which area is the most Catholic -- Oberfranken? More so than Oberbayern? I suppose I could just google it.

I'd think Franconia as a whole couldn't be more catholic than Bavaria, since Mittelfranken is so Lutheran.

When Mom visited us in Erlangen many years ago, she wanted to go to church on a Sunday. So I took her to the big cathedral in Nuernberg. She doesn't speak much German at all (from her university days), but spotted that I'd brought her to a Lutheran service, not a Catholic one. 

Duh, I should've taken her to Bamberg.

Post is less than 24 hours old                      Most Catholic Area in Bavaria by  Jason on  2020-06-03 13:30:53

I meant Bamberg, the city. 

 Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-06 02:16:52

For those not aware, the Bavarian government yesterday gave the approval for beer gardens to open from 18 May (until 8pm) and restaurants to open on 25 May (until 10pm). As soon as I heard I took the week off work :) 

Clearly, this is not a 'return to normality' here; there will be strong restrictions and changes we will have to work around. For example, with restricted seats, how will somewhere like Spezi Keller regulate the predictable huge queues... will reservations be mandatory? Will there be time limits? Not all is yet clear but it is something to celebrate for all lovers of Franconia. 

I will be taking my bike out on Monday to visit any place that will have me, perhaps Griess being a starting point. 

   Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jeff on  2020-05-06 06:06:14

I visited my local pub yesterday for the first time in 2 months.  In my state, bars and restaurants were allow to reopen on Friday May 1st although many have remained closed or open for take out only.   To help with social distancing about 25% of the tables are removed, tables cannot have more than 6 people, no standing is allowed and only a few stools at the bar each being spaced over 6 feet apart.  It was very interesting to see how much some people have changed in apperance over that time frame.  The crowd was typical for a Tuesday but thinned out very early in the evening.

     Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-06 07:50:28

What state is that Jeff?

       Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-06 08:51:43

Think we are a long way off pubs being open here in the UK. Very few beer gardens up here in the frozen north.

         Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-06 10:06:38

Same here in New England.  I think we're probably looking at July.

       Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jeff on  2020-05-06 10:24:08

I live in North Dakota right on the border with Minnestota.  Minnestota is still closed until 5-18. I am not sue if MN will open on 5-18 or extend their shutdown again.  ND is a state about half the area of Germany with a population of under 1 million.

     Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-05-07 08:28:44

How have people's appearances changed?

Jason, are you sure there will be long queues? 

       Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason on  2020-05-08 01:37:10

People's appearances? 

I can't be sure, and I'm talking mainly about Spezi Keller or Schlenkerla. I would be extremely surprised if I could just stroll in. 

         Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-05-08 02:39:45

WRT appearances, people we know either have long hair now, or a slightly weird cut that their spouse/partner has done. 

           Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-09 02:03:51

I hadn't succomed to having my hair cut by my girlfriend, she liked it long anyway, though I hate it, especially as it gets warmer. I hadn't really seen too many shockers round here. 

But I got it cut on Thursday as hairdressers opened early May. Weight off my shoulders. 

             Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jor on  2020-05-09 13:12:14

I laughed wholeheartedly at you referencing "only criticism that Franconian beers are too strong'. As akward as it feels (seen from abroad), it's obviously true. And you're obviously right that it's linked to taxation, like most things beer, before it becomes cultural.

Surprised to hear that Spezial U is that low in percent, the few times I've had it, I've grouped it along Heckel, in the pristine & rounded sweetish Pils malt type of Franconian beers possibly obscuring its strength.

Quickly checking, I realise, that the beers I enjoy most having a few plus glasses of (Roppelt, Lieberth, Schlenkerla Helles, Eichhorn, Gradl, Geyer, Hartleb, Spezial and Schenkerla on the edge) are all at or below 5%. Witzgall Landbier the exception, Monchsambacher and Heckel top out at 3 Bechers usually.

Lovely one, who would I like to see brew a Einfach? A ~8-10 Plato beer?
Will start a new thread!

               Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-10 06:03:04

Um, I think I referenced Spezial Lager. The U is at or over 5%. 

           Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jeff on  2020-05-09 06:13:48

Peoples appearances have vastly changed.  I don't personally know most of the people I am referring to but i see them on a regular basis and say hello.  Some people have lost all color to them, lost weight, appear to have aged a couple of years and look like they have just gotten out of an underground prison.  Other people have gained considerable weight which is easy to understand why.  People's hair, including facial hair is all over the place. Some long, some short and a lot more people with hats on. My original comment was based the wide variety of change between each person.  If we all gained a couple pounds and had long hair i wouldn't have thought much about it

             Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-09 12:34:05

over 6 weeks? I find that very hard to believe. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but it sounds rather far fetched. People don't just put on or lose weight in such a short time, especially when shops are open as normal. 

I haven't noticed anything of the sort here, and we've been on lockdown longer. 


               Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Mark Andersen on  2020-05-09 12:50:49

I've actually lost a bit of weight in these 6 weeks.  Mainly because of not eating and drinking in pubs as I often do in normal times.  Eating at home has led to a healthier diet.  Beer consumption is probably about the same.  I do know some people that gained a bit of weight  though due to bad eating habits and drinking more than usual.  Played my first round of golf today since February.  Walked all 6 miles and it was easier than I expected.

Mentally though, I think some of my local friends are cracking up.  Especially the more social ones.

                 Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-09 13:19:00

For sure I think people have lost/put on weight, but would I notice? Would I notice strangers walking around looking 'different'? Not here, that's for sure. 

Mentally, I think that's much more likely. I found the first week the hardest, but since then it's been fine. I've had certain (positive) distractions, but it's not been so terrible. I would say i'm mixed between introvert and extrovert; i can do both, and i'll adapt as necessary.

I can imagine that for others it's much harder, and they have my upmost sympathy. 

         Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-05-10 12:27:29

    The "people's appearences" was meant to Jeff...sorry.

I was wondering whether people wouldn't be staying away more than you might expect. Becki does give me the impression that people in Aachen, at least, are staying home a lot more than they are here in Florida.

           Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants by  Jason  on  2020-05-11 04:24:25

I really don't know, but one thing is for sure, Aachen isn't Bamberg/Oberfranken. Beer kellers gardens are a way of life here. I think I would say that those in the vulnerable class might be more inclined to stay away (probably should, even beer kellers). 

Who knows, I guess we (I) will find out more next week. 

   Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants Spezi Keller by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-05-07 22:41:23

Spezi Keller has that vast open area on the hill down to the entrance.  They could put tables out there, and the customers would be well socially distanced. 

     Re-openings : beer gardens and restaurants Spezi Keller by  Jason on  2020-05-08 01:33:30

I'm not entirely sure that belongs to them... or that their license allows them to serve customers on it. 

 OT: Radio programme by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-25 03:09:49

Maybe only of peripheral interest but, in these times of filling the hours of very long days and nights under lockdown (five weeks without venturing out now), I've taken to listening to a lot more radio, particularly BBC Radio 4 (I'm not interested in popular music, which cuts out a lot of other stations). 

Of possible interest to Franken Forummers is the series 'How to Invent a Country', which you can find on BBC Sounds.  I've listened to the 3-part programme on Germany, which was fascinating, and very well presented (IMHO) and am part way through the U.S.A., also fascinating.

The other series (of which there are hundreds) of interest to me is Melvyn Bragg's 'In Our Time', which is panel discussion on an incredibly diverse range of topics - the last two have been on 'Wuthering Heights' and 'How Dinosaurs Came to Fly' (not exact title).  And here's a little Franken connection: some years ago, in one of our perambulations, Juergen took me to the Solnhofen area, around Weissenburg, Mittelfranken, and told me about the discovery there of the archaeopteryx fossil, which was the first clue to the origin of birds.

The other amazing event of that trip was going to the oddest location of a bar that I can recall - it was, essentially, in a slate quarry!  I can't remember the detail now or which beer was on offer but the experience still burns bright in my memory.  I wonder if it's still going?  Juergen? 

   OT: Radio programme by  Nick Cowley on  2020-04-25 16:01:20

Thanks for the tip, Barry. Another series on BBC Sounds is Germany: Memories of a Nation - 30 programmes at, each 15 minutes long, narrated by Neil MacGregor (one-time Director of the British Museum, now running the Humboldt Forum in Berlin). In One People: Many Sausages, he "focuses on two great emblems of Germany's national diet: beer and sausages", with Upper Franconia and Rauchbier getting a mention, although the programme inevitably doesn't go very deep. However, one of the speakers claims that Nürnberger Bratwurst contains cinnamon because the city was twinned with Venice - I thought it was marjoram that gives them their distinctive taste?

     Nürnberger Rostbratwürste with cinnamon? by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-04-30 04:21:53

The receipt of the Nürnberger Rostbratwurst is defined in the Innungsbuch der Fleischerinnung Nürnberg (book of the guild of the butchers in Nuremberg). This is an often used way in Germany, not to have a law but a "book" of  a guild or a group of advisers (industry, science, consumer advocates) that define the standard. In the case of a court decision, the court respected the definition of this "book".
Here is the complex definition or "Nürnberge Rostbratwurst"

In relation to herbes and spices:
"Feine Gewürze und Kräuter"
That means it is allowed to use only fine herbes and spices, these are high quality, natural ingeedients, but no chemical aromas, flavor enhancer.
Another part of the definiition says:
"Typische Majoran-Würzung" (Typical marjoram seasoning).

As a result: It is not forbiden to use cinnamon, but must not taste primarily of cinnamon. The sausage must taste primarily of marjoram.

I never heard of the use of cinnamon as a ingredient in the Nuremberger Rostbratwurst, but each butcher has his secret receipt witthin the definition of the book

The combination of Rostbratwurst and cinnamon is not absurd. The restaurant Nürnberger Bratwurstglöckle offers a menu with combines Rostbratwürstchen with fried apples, the apples flavored with cinnamon.

 Spezial Zwickl-Pils - Local pick help?! by  Jan on  2020-04-22 13:35:22

Oh, Spezial filled their Zwickl on bottle again at the window.
Any local who'd be ok for picking up a crate and ship it over?

Schlenkerla sells crates of their beer in shipping boxes at their window. I'm paying for a crate for whoever picks it up, so you could reuse the karton box for shipping. + shipping obviously.

Hold out Bamberg!

   Spezial Zwickl-Pils - Local pick help?! by  Jason on  2020-04-22 22:01:51

Just for info they did this a few weeks ago but it's no longer available. Maybe they will do it again or maybe that was them getting rid of stock from pre closure. 

     Spezial Zwickl-Pils - Local pick help?! by  Jan on  2020-04-25 12:33:33

   Naechstes Mal!
Am I right that 'Zwickl-Pils' is their Ungespundet?

       Spezial Zwickl-Pils - Local pick help?! by  Jason  on  2020-04-27 21:24:21

Yup. Thank god, would hate to think Spezi had brewed a Pils... 

 Tag des Bieres 2020 by  Jason  on  2020-04-22 11:01:57

Sadly tomorrow is just another day in Bamberg with the annual event on the Maxplatz cancelled. Ironically the weather is to be perfect with another full day of sunshine and temperatures in the low to mid 20s. Far cry from a few years' ago when it was also late April and it snowed! 

Luckily, as the rules here have changed a little and one can now socialise with a person outside their household, I shall be taking a 10 liter barrel of Eichhorn Kellerbier to a certain Bamberg resident known to some of you to raise a few toasts to Gambrinus. 

I would encourage the same from those around the world who share a love for this city and it's incredible beer culture.  

   Tag des Bieres 2020 by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-22 13:23:04

I'd lost track of the day. It's been a few years since I missed one, so I will raise my tricorn hat to the anonymous resident and drink a toast with my last remaining Maerzen to all friends from Maxplatz!

     Tag des Bieres 2020 by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-23 01:14:20

I have 24 bottles of newly arrived Franconian beer in the garage, so will raise a couple tonight with you Jason.

       Tag des Bieres 2020 by  AndyH on  2020-04-23 01:50:15

In that case, I think tomorrow calls for a Huppendorfer Vollbier. Cheers!

       Tag des Bieres 2020 by  Andrew H on  2020-04-23 01:54:09

Which supplier did you use John? and roughly how long did delivery take? Ta.

         Tag des Bieres 2020 by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-23 02:51:09

I used hier-gibts-bier. 24 bottles came in 2 boxes of 12, which arrived on separate days. About 9 days all told. Even with the delivery charge was cheaper that getting 24 cans from my nearest microbrewery.

           Tag des Bieres 2020 by  Andrew H on  2020-04-23 05:01:38

Great,thanks. I will give it a try!

 Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-22 02:56:36

I ordered some Weiherer landbier from Hier-gibts-bier but they've emailed me to say it's out of stock and that they have sent an alternative. It's also a landbier from Brauerei Schroll in Nankendorf just north of Heckel in Waischenfeld. Anyone have any experience of their beer and if so, would you recommend I go for it or return it when it arrives. Thanks in anticipation

   Brauerei Schroll by  TomM on  2020-04-22 03:43:00

For what it's worth, both these landbiers score very closely on UnTapped and RateBeer, with the Schroll one actually rating a bit higher.

     Brauerei Schroll by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-22 04:16:20

Hi Dave I've been a couple of times to that Schroll - I believe cousin to the one in Reckendorf.  The later is high on my list of favourites, although they only brew the one beer - the ubiquitous Vollbeer!  It's probably unfair to compare but, IMHO, the Reckendorf beer is much better.  Not to say that the Nankendorf beer is particularly bad but I don't think that it's particularly outstanding.

My advice (for what it's worth!), take it, try it, come to your own conclusions and post them here!


       Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-22 04:49:53

Thanks for the advice guys. Will report further after it arrives and I get a chance to try it.

       Brauerei Schroll by  Mosquit on  2020-04-22 04:56:31

I did couple of visits in past years to Nankendorf and we have agreed that beers were suprisingly clean (in terms of no contamination) even though we were there always in the morning, most likely first customers of that day. If I remember correctly we tried Helles, Landbier and Bock from tap, all very drinkable. No experiences with bottles. 

Reckendorfer Vollbier is also very good. If I remember, Bockbier is always shared between both Schrolls - one year brewed in Reckendorf, other year in Nankendorf. 

       Brauerei Schroll by  Mark Andersen on  2020-04-22 07:16:22

I've been to Nankendorf twice.  Liked the beer both times.  But also agree with Barry about the Reckendorf Schroll.  But then again that one is one of my favorites so for me hard to beat.  


         Brauerei Schroll by  Mark Andersen on  2020-04-22 07:17:23

That being said I'd kill for a home delivery of Schroll from Nankendorf right now.  Not possible. Enjoy!

           Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-22 09:02:01

Thanks for all your replies. Food for thought or should that be BEER for thought.

             Brauerei Schroll by  Jason  on  2020-04-22 10:56:07

I have a bottle in my fridge :) beers are good and consistent. I'm not a huge fan of the tap, it was renovated recently and looks a bit like a cafe, but I would always go if passing (which I do rarely, as it's not easy to reach). 

Right now i'm enjoying Huppendorf Zwickl quite a lot. 

               Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-23 03:11:13

Thanks for the info Jason. Wishing you and all on the forum as good a Tag des Bieres as is possible in these times. Please say hi to the one you're sharing a beer with today. Tell him I (eventually) found my belt and will wear it with pride next time I visit Bamberg. I'll raise a glass to you all this evening.

           Brauerei Schroll by  Todd Ashman on  2020-04-24 07:04:28

I was there in April of 2019 and the landbier was a malty sweet low bitterness amber lager. I thought it was a well made lager not to far off from what I would call a Marzen. After several tries over the years to find the place open I was happy to actually get inside. I hope you can report favorably on the bottles if you get them. I'll keep an eye out for your follow-up.

             Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-08 04:44:34

Schroll still hasn't arrived so unable to comment just yet. Hier gibts Bier use the regular postal service which isn't great at the best of times and obviously even slower at the moment. A 5 liter keg of Schederndorfer Landbier (Brauerei Will) and one Weiherer Kellerbier from Brauerei Kundmüller have arrived so I'll survive for a couple of days!

               Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-22 12:58:04

The beer from Brauerei Schroll has arrived. I was hoping it would be their Kellerbier but unfortunately it is a Helles. Quite hoppy for the style but otherwise unremarkable, which is a shame because it's a 5 liter keg. Still I'll look on the bright isn't something from the AB InBev stable.

                 Brauerei Schroll by  TomM on  2020-05-23 00:41:20

It took a month to arrive and then it was the wrong beer? Did they promise you the kellerbier or just something from Schroll?

                   Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-25 01:19:25

They offered a 'Landbier' from Schroll. It was only when I poured it, I realised something might be amiss. Because the keg was a generic one, without any brewery graphics on it, I reached for my glasses to read a very small label on the lid describing it as a Helles. Too late, it had been opened, no chance of returning it.

                     Brauerei Schroll by  TomM on  2020-05-25 02:50:51

"Landbier" just means beer brewed by a brewery located in the countryside, rather than a city. Hopefully the Helles is good.

Did it take a month to get to you? Who delivered it, the post office?

The reason I am asking is that I just got around to ordering from hier-gibts-bier on Friday 15 May. It was shipped from them on the 19th and went to Hermes who have given it to some unspecified company on the 20th. I was just wondering how long it might take to receive my order.

                       Brauerei Schroll by  Jason  on  2020-05-25 03:24:52

Yes, it means literally country/provincial beer, but it is brewed all over the place (though mainly in the country). It could also be called Bauernbier (Farmer's bier). You're right that the country connotations associated make it more... beery I suppose. If the posh people are drinking Pils from a flute in the city, the countryfolk are drinking their malty Maß of Landbier... but I think this is stretching it in generalisations. 

Many people find it frustrating that quite a few German beer categories are ambiguous and overlapping, it's a cliche that Kellerbier, Landbier, Vollbier, Lagerbier and even Zwickel and Ungespundet (which at least have specific meaning) are very hard to define, particularly when they are sitting in a Krug. Landbiers are normally filtered though. 

For a few years now, Schroll have brewed a Helles as well as the darker Landbier. You are right to be confused Dave, as it's called 'Helles' which is a style in itself. It's not called a 'Helles Landbier', therefore just meaning 'pale landbier', and given that Schroll are famous for the beer they call 'Landbier' as it's the style they've brewed for many years, I would suggest they have got this wrong. The cans are often generic to keep costs down, but normally there is a bottle lable stuck on so you can see the name, alcohol content etc. However, these can easily fall off - check in your box in case.  

                       Brauerei Schroll by  David Greenlee on  2020-05-28 02:20:40

Tom, my delivery took around 4 weeks in total. The first keg arrived after just over two weeks but the second part, ordered the same day, took twice as long. Handled by Hermes and delivered by the Irish Postal Service. Now that Bier Kellers are opening up again, demand for these services may be less and perhaps delivery times might improve... Might!

 NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  FredW on  2020-04-17 16:27:33

It is OK to talk about how it has effected you and your family -- especially travel plans.

However it is not OK to discuss the political aspects -- there are plenty of internet forums for that.

This is not directed at any one person, I just want to nip anything in the bud.

Be execellent to one another -- and stay well!

   NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-18 02:44:58

Fair enough. Take care and stay safe.

   NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-04-29 07:31:55

Good call, Fred. Hope you and everyone  else on here is well. 

I've been in Tampa, FL since the end of January, after 2-1/2 months in Ramsgate & Broadstairs, England. Been staying in different places, without a car. Being in Yankley without a car...I shudder to think of how I would be dealing with this if I'd not had the experience of living in Germany for 14 years.

Anyway, perhaps ironically or just coincidentally, the lockdown hasn't really affected me much at all. I've been walking to do my shopping, and I've not had a job in ... a long time. If I had not had the viral pneumonia a year ago, I'd likely be thinking things are being overblown.

I am toying with the idea of returning to Oregon. Or the desert SW, though likely not Vegas.

I have not drunk beer since a final farewell to London on 13th Jan, with a pint of that lovely nectar, Fullers London Pride. Well, it was the best pint of it I've ever had, anyway. I can't afford beer at US prices anyway.

It's interesting to hear how things are in lovely Aachen from Becki. Her trip over on the QMII with doggie1 (Tabor) was set for April. Well, that got postponed until...?

I miss German plumbing and housing construction standards. I don't miss Germans' tendency to complain about things. I miss the safety and security of European life. I miss my old gym in Erlangen. I'll stop there.

     NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-30 04:04:42

Hi Nick Good to hear that you're still surviving ok.  I don't know how you do manage in the USA without a car.  We spent 2 weeks in Orlando and tried to walk places but found it totally impossible - we were warned off by the police on one occasion for walking on a grass strip by the side of the road - told to go back to the hotel!  Fortunately, we had a hire car but it was very frustrating.

Similar thing happened to me in LA some years before - I was walking down the side of a road a few hundred metres away from the Holiday Inn at LAX when a cop car pulled in and they (two) asked me where I was going - very politely.  I said that I was just getting some exercise and they strongly advised me to go back to the hotel, as it was not a safe area!  Looked ok to me.  I enquired for walking at the hotel and they told me to take a taxi to Marina del Rey (your area Fred?).  It was ok but not exactly what I had in mind for a walk.

Anyway, interesting that Becki was thinking of taking the boat over - I had a similar idea (I've read too much about Irish emigration) but it's fiercely expensive.  Maybe after all this is over, as I might have a bit of money then, as I'm not spending much now.  But, then, I've got Franken and Eschawo to revisit, plus Prague (half-planned expedition with Fred) and I want to finish off my Andalucian jaunt.  They'd better get this business sorted out quick, I'm not getting any younger!

One small step: took my first walk outside for 6 weeks last night to my local shops; interesting experience, no one around and not many wearing masks (I was, as I think the benefits outweigh the losses, especially for meeting other people).  I was inspired by my 83-year old sister-in-law who goes walking every day!

       NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-04-30 06:30:17

Hi Baz, nice to hear from you. I've not looked at Farcebook for a while now. I do use WhatsApp all the time with that something you use? It is a Facebook product, I think.

The boat trip B had booked (I think she had a window?) was about twice what she'd pay for a good flight with doggo, IIRC. Less than you might think, IOW. Plus, it's quite an experience, a week at sea with all the food and what-not. She is quite against putting Tabor in an airplane cargo hold...well, I've done that with Crystal twice now, which cured my fear of doing it.

You mean you'd not left your house in 6 weeks? You have a garden though, right? Fresh air and sunshine (well, what you get in Wales) are touted as a real help in the 1918 Spanish flu, and the advice to stay *indoors*...that I don't get. I spend as much time as I can outside, though I have sort of the opposite problem: too much sun means I can't use the computers outside after about 11 AM.

I had gotten started going to the gym when I got here, after not having been to one in a year, since I came down with viral pneumonia a year ago. A guy I'd met off Twitter (fitness oriented, not beer, he's never drunk a drop in his life, this 54YO guy--like me, an alcoholic dad) took me to his a few times, but we've parted ways. Just too many differences, and we all know I'm not the easiest to get along with.

When this is over, come on over and visit. The beer prices might shock you a bit though, aside from Coors and that ilk. An idea right now is to take advantage of a special deal: withdraw $100k from retirement savings without penalty and "invest" it in a decent Wohnmobil/RV/IForgetWhatBritonsCallThem and monster truck to tow behind it and live like a nomad that way. I'd have room for you. (Or put you in a tent outside.)

I don't want to keep renting, but am not ready to buy a property, as I don't know where I want to live. I don't think it will be Florida. I didn't know you'd been here. Yeah, walking is for "losers". Worse than taking the bus. 

         NOTE: Discussing COVID-19 by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-05-02 00:18:52

Yes, WhatsApp all the time - didn't realise that it wasn't used much in the US 'til Mark told me. It's free (sort of) for phone calls so lots of people use it for inter-country calls. I quite liked the idea of the sea voyage but I didn't want the Cunard bells n whistles - I wouldn't eat much of the grub or use the other facilities. Just a cabin and snacks would do me but, even cargo vessels are pricey. Maybe one day. Thanks for the suggestions re campervan or motorhome (that's what we call them) but it's another expensive option and I'm getting a bit long in tooth for the vagabond life. I quite fancy doing Greyhound or one of the other long distance buses. Unlike you, apparently, I actually quite like buses and trains (not many of those in the USA). But it's all pie in the sky at the moment. My 'garden' is 15 feet square but it doesn't worry me that much - I'm not into sunbathing or sitting outside, unless in a Keller. I can go out for a walk, which I did weds night, as far as the shops. Not sure what you don't understand about isolating & social distancing, it's pretty straightforward. I'll walk anywhere new, as when on holiday, but I get bored just walking places that I know. And I don't think that the air is particularly better outside than in, special when you've got hayfever! Take care - oh and the weather been great here for a month, plenty of sun but it's turned a bit wetter in the few days - due to get better next week. But it's not FLA!

           OFF TOPIC: Discussing Hayfever & Sunshine by  Nick B (formerly in Erlangen) on  2020-05-02 06:45:19

Ah, a fellow hayfever sufferer...I used to be, til I ...wait for it... fixed my diet. Geographic changes helped too -- Minnesconsin was a nightmare, I would get it in May and again early September. In Orygun, only in May, the same in Franken except milder. 

Vitamin D is supposed to do all kinds of wonders for the body, via hormone production. In combination with stopping the use of vegetable/seed oils (save olive oil, which is a natural product, whereas the others are industrially processed and have only been around a century or so), my tolerance for the sun improved dramatically. (That's also a commonly reported effect of ...well... doing to one's diet what I did to mine a couple years ago.) 

I used to put on sunscreen for my 75 minute bike ride to Stiebarlimbach; I used to burn that easily. That changed by summer 2017.

I don't not understand what is meant by isolation and social distancing; I was just wondering if you've really just been sitting around inside all this time. I've always had the idea of being outdoors rather than indoors as healthy, since my dad explained that his polio treatment in 1952 involved being made to be outside wearing as little as possible that the weather would allow (luckily...heh...if there's anything lucky about contracting polio, especially the last year before they came up with the vaccine...polio struck mostly in summer) rather than couped up inside. Like with the stories of alternative treatments of Spanish flu: sunshine and ozone.

And Becki and I were always outdoorsy people, at least after we escaped Minnesconsin for Orygun, where "outdoorsiness" is a much bigger thing. There's just more to do and people spend more time outdoors there than elsewhere in the country, save Alaska, apparently.

Pacific northwesterners drink more in pubs than elsewhere in the US and spend more time outdoors than elsewhere.

I used to LOVE using the trains & buses in Franken, Barry! Americans seemed pretty shocked by the idea of taking your bike on a bus, let alone a dog. It appears that US buses will only take bikes mounted to the front or back of the bus; you can't take them inside. Nor does space for prams in US buses appear to be a universal thing, though that might be changing.

Heh...when I told my old ex-drinking friends in the US (on an email list) about how German buses have space for wheelchairs/prams/bikes in the middle and how you can board with such things in the middle, the one guy who had worked for many years at TRI-MET, Portland Oregon's mass transit organisation, said, "What could be more natural than for a mother to carry her baby in her arms in the bus, rather than use a pram?" Yeah, Jeff, right. 

Heck...maybe he was joking! I never considered that. 

When I first told them about taking my bike on the bus, one guy in Champaign Illionois who does use the bus said, "Oh, you're one of those a-holes who blocks the aisle with your luggage." He just couldn't comprehend how rows of seats are replced with open space in the middle of the bus.

Meh...I've got to get back to "work" on my programming course. I really dislike my experiences with online learning so far. I guess I'm too old fashioned and still prefer a classroom type setting. My only programming course at university (1988?) had us taking notes on paper, then going to the library to use IBM PCs to do our assignments, saving them to floppy disk, and giving those to the instructor, who graded them. It was the hardest course I had in college, save Chemistry, which was utterly horrible. (Sorry Mom & Uncle Jimbo!)

 Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason  on  2020-04-15 11:07:17

Not to make a big thing of it, but it was announced today that the measures in Germany remain in place until 3.5. There is still some doubt as to how things progress after that in Bavaria, given that the state has been the worst hit, but things will very slowly start to open in early May (small shops, hairdressers and schools). 

There is no mention of pubs etc but that's probably due to it's low prioirty, but I imagine unless things deteriorate then maybe June (but that's a guess). The bad news for our breweries is that all events are cancelled until 30 August (at least). That means all Kerwa, Annafest and local festivals etc. That's going to hit the breweries hard I imagine, much more than having to close for a month. It certainly makes me sad, as a resident who enjoys these events and for the people who live through them (also musicians, catering, event managers, security etc).

I don't know if there will be any additional help for the gastronomy industry.  

   Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-04-16 05:36:37

I saw yesterday that Annafest is cancelled this year. 

When are they going to cancel Oktoberfest in Munich?


     Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  AndyH on  2020-04-16 06:36:22

I've cancelled my visit in May. Think I'll wait a while before deciding when to rebook for.

       Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jeff on  2020-04-16 10:23:29

I was scheduled to leave the States on April 28th.  This morning I called American Airlines about my options.  They told me I could get a refund.  I mentioned that what I really wanted was to be able to make my trip since I secured it with a great price on airfare.  They asked if I had a date I would like to reschedule.  I said end of June for 2 weeks.  I was then offered great connections and round trip tickets for 2 weeks with no addition fees.  I rebooked the flights.  I am hoping I can do this procedure a second time if things have not gotten back to some normalcy by then.


         Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Andrew H on  2020-04-16 10:38:04

Sincerley, best of luck Jeff. But I dont think we will be back to anywhere near normal by then.
But,then I am an eternal pessimist.Viel Gluck!

           Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason on  2020-04-16 14:15:11

I'm afraid that even if pubs and hotels have reopened, borders even in the EU may remain closed for some weeks yet. It's of course nothing personal to anyone from anywhere, but if we go through this and then start allowing flights and tourists in from the US, I for one would be really pissed off. I do not anticipate traveling anywhere in a plane this year, and even if I want to (which I do), I wouldn't. I'm afraid it's no longer a priority, nor a reality. 

If a miracle happens and it disappears/we get a vaccine, you'll be welcomed with open arms, no question. 

             Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Andrew H on  2020-04-16 15:11:31

I make you right Jason,nothing is going to return to "normal" this year.

               Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason on  2020-04-17 00:00:18

Sadly not. I'm holding out for Mark and others who have trips planned in Q4 2020. That's just too far away to tell, and I don't want to be alarmist. As most of my plans were in June/July I'm just consigned to being 'stuck' in Bamberg. I'm happy with that. 

                 Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-17 01:07:05

Have a trip planned for June. Looking to rearrange for late September, be crazy to book anything at this stage though, I think. 
Do you think kellers will open, Jason? Easier to maintain social distancing if numbers are restricted, maybe?

                   Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason  on  2020-04-17 06:19:11

Hmmm, as they say here, jain... yes/no. It's a good point that Kellers could enforce the rules, but it's also the case that they could be swamped if they are the only places open for beer. Yes you could limit numbers but is it worth it to open with only 50% capacity. Will people wait in line for what could be hours? Hygene is also an issue if they have food. Nothing that can't be sorted with measures. I've just been to Boehnlein butchers and it's all very orderley, queues outside, X's on the floor showing where people stand etc. 

I think the biggest problem is Munich. You open Kellers here you probably have to open beer gardens there, then the problems above are much more problematic in the middle of a city. I think it'll all depend on the virus and if it's there is a seasonal tendency... maybe by June things could be very different. 

                     Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-17 09:34:26

I suppose it's quite hard to police and would only work in the bigger places. Was thinking just beer, no food, but they probably make better margins on food? Think it's going to be quite a while before pubs open here. What a mess.

                       Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason  on  2020-04-19 08:37:37

It is. There are some optimistic noises coming from the authoriites here that from 31.5 there could be a change in the hospitality sector. Also that they are bringing more help to the hospitality sector. I'm not sure exactly how comprehensive it is. 

I went to Doerfleins yesterday as they started doing takewawy draft beer (every day except Sundays/Mondays) and had a few words with Alfonse and he mentioed the end of May. Of course it won't be 'normal' but better than nothing. He seemed quite chipper about selling takeaway beer. 

The problem though is that the average age of their guests is easily over 60. I cannot see it being full, as it always seems to be, for some time. 

                 Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Mark Andersen on  2020-04-17 06:28:49

I have no expectations for my planned trip in late November. Even that may not be possible.  If people are still having to social distance and are on edge I'm not sure I want to be that tourist from the US that shows up and makes people uncomfortable.  However, there is a lot of time between now and then and at least I'll be able to gauge how things are going well in advance.

If figure if it doesn't happen and things are a lot better in 2021 I'll just come more often and for longer periods of time then.  The money I'm not spending in pubs and breweries here and in trips over there are going to allow for extra vacation splurging in 2021.  That being said I still hope to be there in November.    

             Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  AndyH on  2020-04-20 00:50:05

We've already discussed driving to Bamberg when things are back to normal. But I don't suppose we can avoid flying forever and for some there's no alternative.

     Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason on  2020-04-16 14:18:57

Söder is meeting with the Munich city council in the next week or two. It'll be cancelled, no question. The sheer size and number of foreign visitors makes it impossible. Or maybe decreased in size and just for locals ie Münchners/Germans depending on the travel restrictions. But I'm being romantic here.

In times of crisis, Germans are practical, not sentimental. 

       Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  FredW on  2020-04-16 14:23:26

Leading a double life there, Jason :)

I fixed your posts.

         Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason on  2020-04-17 00:00:39



           Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-17 04:08:55

I suspect that the world will begin to look rather different when this business is all over.  I don't think that Jason will be alone in being alarmed if Germany opens its borders quickly to any country that's not controlled C-19.  So that includes the non-EU countries of the UK (fully from the end of 2020) and the USA, both of whom look a million miles away from controlling the spread of the virus.  I'm not sure how Germany will cope with other EU countries, such as Italy (it's only a few hundred kms from the most infected area to Munich, for example) and Spain.

Travel has always been a massive part of my life and I'm really missing it.  It's only been a months since my ill-fated trip to Spain but it's hard even to dream of travelling now.  I'm told not to move out of my house for another 2 months - earliest  Still, it's a minor problem compared to those suffered by others, particularly the poorer sections of all our populations.

Take care and stay safe!


             Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason  on  2020-04-17 06:37:57

Right now I would put the UK in with the US. But you're right, Spain, Italy and France are not far away. The thing about borders is that they don't really matter if all countries are on the same level. 

The reason why Germany has been able to control (relatively speaking) the virus is through early testing and tracking. There is an app they are now pushing for tracking, but it has to be voluntary because Germans are very sensitive about surveilance.

Allowing travel prevents this tracking. It also encourages tourism which is prime for virus spreading. In my (layman) opinion, travelling across borders without good reason should be in place until the virus is 100% under control in the EU. Based on this, more businesses can open locally. As you say Barry, you miss travel as we all do, but it's not essential as you appreciate. 

It's obviously because I'm living in my favourite place anyway, but I knowm others are also just looking forward to life returning to some normality and enjoying what's in their area. It's another beautiful day here and it would have been perfect to go up to a Keller. But we're going to take some beers to the river and find somewhere quiet to sit and enjoy the weather (the rules aren't as strict here as in the UK). 

               Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Mark Andersen on  2020-04-17 06:41:00

Yeah while I miss Bamberg/Franconia at this point I'll just be happy, as you say, to return to some normality here locally and be able to golf, visit pubs and breweries, etc.  Returning to Bamberg is a beautiful but distant thought at this point.  Trying not to think too far ahead helps with the anxiety of all this.  

       Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jeff on  2020-04-21 11:16:37

It is offical, Okoberfest is canceled.  a 1.2 billon Euro hit to the local economy.

         Events until 31.8 (at least) CANCELLED by  Jason on  2020-04-21 11:56:09

Was hardly a surprise.

However, on a side note I think it's too early to (for example) talk about bock Anstiche just yet. They don't need big organisation and so can be assessed in September. 

 fao jason by  Gav B on  2020-04-10 14:37:13

Hi all, but mainly Jason, hopefully you'll rememeber but a couple of years ago me and about 9 others from yorkshire met you in torschuster, we then moved on, on your recommendation to a bar, i think is on sandstrasse, upstairs, which served monchsambacher, what was the name of that bar? It's been bugging me for a while. Cheers!

   fao jason by  FredW on  2020-04-10 14:38:35

I can't answer for Jason, but it sounds like Rotenschild. 

     fao jason by  Gav B on  2020-04-10 15:04:06

Fred! that sounds right to me, cheers bud, hope you're keeping well

       fao jason by  FredW on  2020-04-10 15:05:27

All is well in LA -- keeping isolated but luckily some good local breweries are doing deliveries.

         fao jason by  Gav B on  2020-04-10 15:17:53

good to hear, im expexting a delivery from a getraenkenmarkt in nuernberg this week which should help pass the time. Hopefully see you in the next year for a beer or two

           fao jason by  Jason on  2020-04-11 00:51:26

Hi Gavin, just to confirm, as Fred wrote, the bar is called Rotenschild. Although I spread myself about, it's my "local" on the weekend - I even have my own Krug there :) 

             fao jason by  Gav B on  2020-04-11 05:12:50

fantastic, cheers Jason, i remembered it being a great place and wanted to make a note of it for future visits!

 Beer order  by  Jason on  2020-04-08 09:09:41

I got my recent order from biershop bayern the other day, 9 bottles of Bürgerbräu Gustl from Bad Reichenhall, one of Bavaria's finest, and 9 bottles of export hell from Brauerei Gut Forstung. Gustl is a lovely unfiltered Kellerbier that is normally filtered in the bottle, and I was surprised to see a few cloudy bottles in my order (with no note in the ingredients of 'hefe'). Unfortunately these all turned out to be 'off'. Just a sniff was enough; they weren't terrible, but for what is normally a lovely drop were clearly way off the mark. 2/7 were fine and clear as a bell, and drunk well. All the same best before date. As the beer is normally unfiltered, I wonder if there was a mistake and some were not filtered. But that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Very unusual, I don't think I've ever had an off beer in Germany (outside Oberhaid, and that's not off, just bad). 

The Gut Forsting was excellent. Was very impressed on my 1 visit a few years ago. I have written an email asking if the shop would consider refunding me - I sent photos of the cloudy and clear versions. If it was 2/3 I wouldn't have bothered, and if they weren't 20€ odd for 9. We'll see what they come back with. 

   Beer order  by  AndyH on  2020-04-09 05:38:15

That's a shame Jason. I've still only drnk two bottles so far but both were outstanding.

     Beer order  by  Jason on  2020-04-10 02:22:43

To be fair, they refunded me without quibbling and said they would speak to the brewery. 

Very commendable customer service. 

   Beer order  by  TomM on  2020-04-10 02:43:39

I have e-mailed Biershop Bayern twice with no answer. Once was in the autumn to enquire if they still delivered to the UK. The other a few weeks ago as I was having trouble with a credit card I wanted to use. In both instances the e-mail was in English with a Google translate into German. I haven't ordered from them.

     Beer order  by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-10 10:26:25

Hi Tom, I ordered from They took a credit card and the beer arrived in Dublin in 5 days. Shipping seems a little pricey but i guess it's on a par with most others. Perhaps not as good a selection from Franconia as I'd like but in these difficult times I'm sure ther'll be something that suits

     Beer order  by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-10 10:33:45

It seems that Biershop Bayern and Biertraum are one and the same. I actually ordered from Biershop Bayern website however all their emails come from Biertraum. I hope this helps

       Beer order  by  TomM on  2020-04-10 11:17:30

Thanks David. It was that I e-mailed twice with no reply.

         Beer order  by  TomM on  2020-04-10 11:19:23

Oh, did you try any of the Schoenramer beers yet? If so, what did you think?

           Beer order  by  TomM on  2020-04-11 01:36:38

           Beer order  by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-11 04:59:27

I've tried the Pils and the Hell which were the only Schrönramer beers I bought. Both very well brewed, clean with good malt flavour. The Pils obviously the hoppier of the two but I'd have either any day of the week. I have since placed an order for their Gold which seems to be an export style, the Dunkel and for good measure, some Weizen. As you can see, I am planning for a long lockdown but it will give me a chance to plan a visit to Schönram when all this is over. 

             Beer order  by  FredW on  2020-04-11 15:37:08

Just got a email from a local beer/wine place adversing the Schönram Pils and Gold. Checking their website they also have the Dunkel and Saphir Bock. All $3.99 a bottle. No delivery but curbsite pickup.

I just received my case of Birra Nursia -- brewed by the Benedictine Monks of Norcia (birthplace of St. Benedict). Mostly the Extra (10%, dark) which I'd had before but included some of the Blonde (6%) which is new to me.

Their monastery and church were pretty much destroyed in the Italian earthquakes of 2016 -- but the brewery wasn't damanged. Ninkasi moves in mysterious ways...

 OT:Home delivery by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-30 10:27:42

Probably some of you have seen this, useful resource for beer deliveries in your UK region. Having said that, the places near me are more expensive than the beer I got from Bayreuth. Happy drinking!

   OT:Home delivery by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-30 14:12:48

Just received a message from DHL - My parcel due to arrive tomorrow. Does say who it's from, finger's xxd that it's from B of Europe!

     OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-01 01:18:09

I had one of those for a delivery yesterday but nothing turned up.

       OT:Home delivery by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-01 02:29:30


       OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-01 04:19:37

DHL Rescheduled for this afternoon (BoE?), German beer being delivered by Hermes

         OT:Home delivery by  Jason  on  2020-04-01 06:15:03

Mine was stuck in the depot 4km away for nearly a week but arrived yesterday - 2 bottles broken, they had to re box. Refund from BierBayern was almost immediate. 

Already considering another box, won't be back in Bamberg until next Friday... I've exhausted the limited options locally in Ulm. 

           OT:Home delivery by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-01 07:56:49

Ive only received 10 of the 20 from Bayreuth, courier said other box was 'broken'. Hermes dont seem to be terribly proactive in communicating delivery times. Post seems very disrupted here in general. First world problem of course.

           OT:Home delivery by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-04 04:35:16

Jason, When tou are back in Bamberg you'll be able to order from They only deliver locally but they have a much better selection from the oberfranken region than biershop-bayern. Just a thought, D

             OT:Home delivery by  Jason  on  2020-04-04 05:07:04

Thanks Dave, I could have also ordered from them to Ulm... but Biershop Bayern have a few more exotic options like Kloster Mallersdorf, Buergerbraeu Bad Reichenhall and Gut Forsting beer, all of which are very good, but not available in Franken.

I'll be travelling back on Good Friday. There's no worries just going to the local supermarkets for beer, it's m,uch cheaper and the range is big. I'm just missing some kellerbier. However, where possible I will collect draft beer from breweries. Greifenklau is 1 that is doing it and I might ask Eichhorn if I can come by with my 3 litre Siphon, or even better if they have 10 litre barrels for Easter. I'm becoming bored of bottled beer. 

               OT:Home delivery by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-04 08:23:26

That's why I ordered the Belgian beer, it's what I'd drink in Belgium and it's no different drinking it here. But it's not like being in a pub! Fortunately, my local micro is doing off-sales, which I can get via friends - very careful friends! My FB friends will have seen my report on last night's North Riding Brewery in some & walnut stout, which was great. I followed it with a bottle of Maerzen & it worked pretty well.

               OT:Home delivery by  David Greenlee on  2020-04-05 01:54:44

Eichhorn....You're making me salivate now Jason

     OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-01 11:05:26

I have to admit chaps I ventured down the path to oblivion. Knowing all but nothing about wine other than it seems to be surrounded by a cloak of pretention and overprice.and is fermented Grapes. I ordered 10 bottles of a mixed type that I found interesting (well liked the look of the labels!) from the local (500yds away) wine merchant "wines of inerest" delivered 09:30 next morning free of charge.
 And studiously avoiding pretentious sniffing and glass swirling have been trying them out.

My main conclusions are, that Beer is better,  Price does not equal quality, " New world wines" are often tastier than European, and 13.5% means caution is reqiured.
Bit off topic I know but we are in strange times.

       OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-02 00:42:02

In the same way that brewer/brewery is a critical factor in buying/drinking beer, grower/winemaker is equally important with wine. This little piece of knowledge puts you ahead of 99% of wine drinkers. Most buy wine because of the grape variety or where it's from which is like buying a beer just because it has a certain type of malt or hop or because it's German.

         OT:Home delivery by  Jason  on  2020-04-02 00:58:30

I would contest that new world wines are better ;) but it's all down to taste and preference. 

Where wine is made / grapes are grown is important and much more critical than beer. In the age of 'craft brewing', all styles are brewed everywhere now. It's no longer true that you only get ales in the UK and lagers in Franconia or pilsners in Northern Germany. The only real comparable with beer is where the hops are grown - but these are exported and used worldwide so even this doesn't match up. Water is treated so is less important. Fortunately, the old world powerhouses of brewing like Britain, Germany, Belgium and the Czech lands still have their traditional variants to go alongside the modern 'global' styles. 

i would actually say the winemaker is less important when buying wine than the location. These kind of subtleties come later, but knowing the difference between an alsatian Riesling and a Rhineland
Pfalz Riesling (geographically very close but very different terroir) is more important. I guess because I was brought up with wine as well as beer and that my parents live in France means I have quite a lot of experience of what a few miles make in the taste of a wine. I love the rich reds from the Langoudoc region of south western France and the reds of Tuscany. And the sweet wines of Banyuls and the rich (expensive) trockenbeerenauslese of the Rhineland. Strangely I'm not a big fan of Franconian wine, though it's pedigree is clear. 

i just realized I used the word 'terroir' on the beer forum... 6am tomorrow morning by the wall is it? laugh

           OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-02 03:52:25

HaHa! you have caught   the Pretentio virus, self isolate away from all wine for 14 years.
I respect your knowledge Jason. But I also recall from many years ago a couple of wine experts, Jilly Goolden and?? getting tricked unprepared on live television into a blind wine tasting. The result was truly cringeworthy, ie not being able to tell Red from White, the country it came from etc etc. So, I will stick to saying " I like this wine" or "I dont like this wine" Cheers!

             OT:Home delivery by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-02 04:04:26

Beware of the 'inverse snobbery' virus too! And I dont believe anyone who has drunk wine cant tell the difference between red and white. Thats like a beer drinker not being able to distinguish between lager and stout. Though theres probably some thrusting young microbrewer dreaming up a hybrid of the two even as we speak.

               OT:Home delivery by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-02 05:01:57

As my FB friends will know, my delivery from Beers of Europe (UK -based) arrived yesterday afternoon - took 6 days, which I don't think is bad in the present circumstances, and no breakages. 

Lots of yummies: Chimay red, Mort Subite Gueze, Orval St Bernardus abt 12, Rochefort 6, Westmalle Tripel and ..... 6 bottles of Schlenkerla Maerzen!  Guess which I drank first last night?  Ok, not a hard question, of course, a bottle of Maerzen.  Slightly disappointing (Jason has posited his doubtless correct views on FB) but certainly sweeter than vom Fass, less stridently smokey (I didn't get that 'Wow, why the hell am I drinking this?' that I get normally on the first Seidla) but still good enough to remind me of the Schwem and happy days (& one or two sadder ones). 

Followed up with a little bottle of the Chimay red: nice but so lively that I lost maybe 10% on the floor - must be more careful next time.

Overall, it was definitely worth doing and made a good accompaniment to watching 'To Have or Have Not' (inferior rip-off of 'Casablanca' but still great but, then, I am a Bogie fan!).

For images see FB, I can't figure out the method here, sorry Fred..

                 OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-02 06:48:26


                   OT:Home delivery by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-02 10:50:44

Yep, certainly better than red wine!  To me, wine is one of those things that's best savoured in its country of origin.  If I was in France (for me, French wine is still the best), I'd drink red wine, although I've heard from people who know about beer that some pretty good beers are being brewed there; ditto Spain, though I don't think that Spanish wine is nearly as good as French (didn't stop me drinking a few bottles of Rioja, though; I was also surprised to be able to buy some really nice beer in the supermercado).

And there's no doubt that the bottled Heller Maerzen was nowhere near as good as vom Fass - but not so bad a substitute given the current situation.

Ok, I'm not in Belgium but Belgium is an ale country and shares a lot of its beer tradition with the U.K.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Sint Bernardus and maybe a Rochefort tonight?  Anyway, at the moment, I'd be very happy to be in Brussels or Brugge or Ghent - or more or less anywhere than here.

Andrew, why don't you try Beers of Europe?  They're only just up the road from you?

                     OT:Home delivery by  Mark Andersen on  2020-04-02 12:46:38

I've taken to drinking wine more in the last few years. I never did like it in my younger days but grew an appreciation for it later in life to the point I even assembled a rack in my cellar that I keep fairly well stocked.  I definitely prefer red over white and reds from Tuscany and other parts of Italy like Puglia region are my favorites.  Although I always enjoy a nice Cabernet or Zinfadel from California.  

But I still and will always like beer much better for various reasons.  Speaking of beer seeing the beers you have received lately has got me looking into a delivery service here.  I'm quickly getting tired of the NE IPA's from my local breweries.  I mean it is New England and that's what we have here mostly but still I need a change.  Those Belgians you got sound appealing to me.  

                       OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-03 00:57:55

Shelton Brothers? Their website seems to suggest trade only, not retail, but they might be relaxing that at the moment?

                     OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-02 15:22:12

About 60 miles Barry, and I dont drive So not really an option,Bit pricey as well. As you may recall I have a bit of a thing about only drinking beer close to where its brewed,so in the present situation I am going for something unusual,(well for me anyhow) If you order again try the St Bernadus Prior, IMHO its nicer than the Abt.

               OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-02 06:47:25

As it was a live broadcast there is probably no recording John. But I can assure you she got it wrong. And touting herself as one of the great experrts as wel..I like to think I will be more likely to catch "tell it as it is 19" lol

                 OT:Home delivery by  TomM on  2020-04-02 08:24:28

There was a fairly recent episode of the BBC show QI that had the panelists blindfolded and trying to judge whether they were drinking red or white wine. Some guessed right, some guessed wrong. Alan Davies cheated. Watch to the end to hear how accurate professional winetasters are:

                   OT:Home delivery by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-02 15:09:11

I remember it well, Andrew. Fact, you use all your senses when eating and drinking. In every blind tasting that I've heard about, all participants got things wildly wrong - milk confused with Guinness, etc., etc. I've just drunk a Rochefort 6 and a Mort Subite Lambic Gueze (not the best I've had but it is owned by Heineken - I'll try something else if I order again). They are 2 very different beers, which I can easily differentiate between when I know what I'm drinking. Would I be able to tell the difference if I didn't know? I dunno, hard to sort out a suitable test when you're isolated.

                   OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-02 15:14:44

Thanks Tom,sort of proves my point.

             OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-03 00:48:21

Absolutely Andrew, drink what you like, not what someone says is good.

           OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-03 00:46:38

What you say about location (terroir) is indeed important for the growing of the grapes. However, a bad winemaker can still undo all the hard work carried out in the vinyard. So I stand by my comment about the winemaker being important.

             OT:Home delivery by  Jason  on  2020-04-04 01:57:25

Well of course it's important, I wasn't suggesting otherwise, but when compared to beer, location is much more important with wine. And a bad winemaker in a good region won't last long. I am not familiar with too many winemakers by name outside of the famous names, but going by region is normally a good guide, alongside price. That's not to say cheap wine can't be good (in France 5EUR can get you a decent bottle), but elsewhere I would nromally pay between 10-20EUR unless it's a special ocassion. 

Anyway, before someone reminds me, this is a beer forum!


               OT:Home delivery by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-04 04:08:33

Times are hard, any talk is better than no talk!

My pen'north comes from colleagues when I used to work in Arras about 25 years ago!  Arras, of course, is really in a beer drinking area; I've still got the card from a lovely bar in nearby Douai, 'Taverne Le Minck'

You could have 'Biers au Tonneau' (sounds much better than a la pression, which has connotations) in either a petite flute or a grande flute or chose from the 'Bieres Speciales Belges', with a choice of 40 bottles, including all the Trappistes, lots of Gueze and Kriek, and even Lindeman's Faro. In Arras itself, there was a cafe that claimed to sell a different beer for each day of the year - i was not there long enough or often enough to get past a couple of months.

The manager of the highway department where I worked was from Brussels and, thus, drank beer and wine.  But the real expert on wine was a colleague whose annual holiday was a trip down to the Rhone valley, with a car full of wine containers (can't temember the name for them, now).  His advice was 'If you're in doubt, you'll never go wrong with a Cote de Rhone - it might not be the the best wine in France, but you'll never be let down!'

I've followed his advice ever since and I've never been let down! 

               OT:Home delivery by  Barry Taylor on  2020-04-04 04:08:33

Times are hard, any talk is better than no talk!

My pen'north comes from colleagues when I used to work in Arras about 25 years ago!  Arras, of course, is really in a beer drinking area; I've still got the card from a lovely bar in nearby Douai, 'Taverne Le Minck'

You could have 'Biers au Tonneau' (sounds much better than a la pression, which has connotations) in either a petite flute or a grande flute or chose from the 'Bieres Speciales Belges', with a choice of 40 bottles, including all the Trappistes, lots of Gueze and Kriek, and even Lindeman's Faro. In Arras itself, there was a cafe that claimed to sell a different beer for each day of the year - i was not there long enough or often enough to get past a couple of months.

The manager of the highway department where I worked was from Brussels and, thus, drank beer and wine.  But the real expert on wine was a colleague whose annual holiday was a trip down to the Rhone valley, with a car full of wine containers (can't temember the name for them, now).  His advice was 'If you're in doubt, you'll never go wrong with a Cote de Rhone - it might not be the the best wine in France, but you'll never be let down!'

I've followed his advice ever since and I've never been let down! 

               OT:Home delivery by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-04 15:31:50

One of the many great things about beer is that you dont have to pay more for the best stuff. A seidla of Franconian beer costs less than a Radeberger or Warsteiner, and you pay no more for a microbrewed British beer than a pint of Stella

                 OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-05 04:05:47

A good deal less when/if the Spoons re open! 

                   OT:Home delivery by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-04-05 07:16:10

I'm afraid I've finished with Wetherspoons. The way they've treated staff and suppliers is a disgrace.

                     OT:Home delivery by  Andrew H on  2020-04-06 01:01:39

Fair point.

                     OT:Home delivery by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-04-06 01:38:42

I finished with them a long time ago. I was totally opposed to CAMRA giving away reduced priced vouchers, which was just another marketing trick by Wetherspoons. Their replacement by vouchers that can be used in different pubs was a good idea but I don't that it will get off the ground. I discussed it with local pub owners and they said, we give a discount to CAMRA members already, we can't give another one. It may encourage some pubs to give a discount but beer pricing is very much down to individual factors.

                     OT:Home delivery by  AndyH on  2020-04-06 01:53:57

I've been finished with Wetherspoons since June 2016.

 OT: GBBF by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 11:02:34

Although not my 'seidla of beer',  I know that plenty of Forum followers will be disappointed but not surprised to learn the GBBF is cancelled.  My sympathies if you have booked to go but all ticket money will be refunded automatically within 5 to 10 days.

Not much fun about at the moment.  Hope my beer order turns up ok!

 First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-03-24 08:47:15

Brewery Werneck will close at 30th of September because of Corona virus money loss. In the past three years the Lang family were struggling to keep the business in good shape and things were looking better. But now the family says they can't cope with the current situation. The government loan will not rescue the business so they decided to give up.

   First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jason on  2020-03-24 09:14:37

I saw their beers in the Edeka in Laubanger Bamberg the other day. I've only ever had them in bottle, one of few I haven't visited due to needing a car. I will try to visit before it closes. 

     First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-24 09:30:41

Simply tragic.  Never been there but my loss nothing compared to their's.

       First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-25 02:46:06

Unfortunately, it wont be the last. I think quite a few UK micros will not survive either.

         First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jason  on  2020-03-25 03:36:29

I've seen fiund raising for Pizzni and Galerie am Stephasnberg already on Facebook. This is troubling, but I wonder what kind of business model is so short sighted that it cannot survive a week or two of no trade. I'm not an expert and I don't want to critiscize blindly, but I find it pretty strange. 

Pizzini in particular, given that they must own the building and do not need to pay the staff during the closure. What are the overheads? I know the owner isn't exactly 'with it' so maybe that's a factor. 

           First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-25 05:42:47

Seems a bit OTT. I believe Germans are far more debt averse than the Brits, but still. I bet loads of UK micros have significant debt, fine when the beer is flying out of the door, not so good when you have no customers. Tough times.

             First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jason  on  2020-03-25 06:07:58

This is very true. However, and I'm sure you'd agree, I don't think 'begging' based on the reputation of your establishment is the first response. I think at least they should offer vouchers for 50 Euros which you could buy to use once the pub opens again, maybe with a little bonus thrown in. I would definitely do this for some of my most frequeted establishments. I think this scheme is being used elsewhere. 

It's not an easy time and far for me to come up with nice little ideas when I'm not involved in the trade, but I'm seeing a lot of innovation across the world of beer and I think it's the time where you innovate or fail. You cannot rely on the generosity of people (who also have their own problems) to keep you afloat in times of trouble, especially after such a short time. 

               First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-25 06:57:15

Have enjoyed drinking in Pizzini over the years, but they would be way down the list of places I would donate money to at this stage. Our local cinema, for example, is offering packages of 5 or 10 tickets for unspecified future films, which seems a much better way to go.
Are the breweries doing off sales over there? Mike says Brockley are still delivering, and getting a good few orders, not sure how long it can continue if we move to an Italy/Spain type situation here, as seems likely.

                 First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jason  on  2020-03-25 09:06:08

Pizzini I has changed a lot in the past few years, not to my preference. I would consider buying vouchers non the less. 

All breweries are still bottling and supplying supermarkets as far as I know. Greifenklau were inviting 'growler' fills and other breweries like Kaiser and Hummel were doing deliveries. 

                   First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  TomM on  2020-03-25 09:21:34

"Greifenklau were inviting 'growler' fills"

How much Greifenklau beer can fit in a pork pie?

                     First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 10:54:43

Like it!

However, I think that this is a good idea and I will suggest to my two local micro's..

                       First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jason on  2020-03-25 12:31:30

We are indeed in strange times... 

                         First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 14:43:33

I suppose that it's sort of like buying anything in advance - for example, I bought my air tickets and paid apartment rent in advance but it's certainly new for pubs.

I've had one sort of response re voucher idea - under consideration.

                           First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-26 17:30:32

My neighborhood brewery has actually suspended growler fills during this pandemic as they are afraid of spreading the disease.  They are still open to sell cans of beer.  

                             First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jeff on  2020-03-30 13:13:41

My local brewey is still doing them but only if you purchse a new one from them at the time of fill.  No refilling of used ones at this time.

                 First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barm on  2020-03-26 03:45:55

Very sad news. I used to enjoy the Wernecker beer , although on my last visit just a couple of years ago I was less impressed (not saying the beer had changed, but my palate might have in the intervening 25 years or so). It is doubly sad given that they had taken on a few staff from the closed Brauhaus Schweinfurt.

               First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  uy on  2020-03-25 15:54:33

While I agree that 'begging' seems the wrong response, it's remarkably easy to be out of business quickly. Statiscally 'small' (UK) business can survive only 27 days without any added cashflow. And it's not balance sheet insolvency killing small companies but cashflow. Bars aren't particulary capital intensive beyond their inception, but often fall into patterns of bad financial practise, ie having too small financial buffers (Profit of Batch B pays for invoice of Batch A). So paying rent, staff and open invoices (of potentially unsold stock) can easily force an insolvency, regardless if staff costs will be restituted and loan fees scraped.

                 First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-26 02:07:25

It's always the case with start ups & small businesses in general, as I recall from my days as a business advisor in the 1980s. Most of the people that we tried to help were desperately under-capitalised and, interestingly, most of the propounders were not moved by a spirit of entrepreneurship but the need for some kind of job. It was a tough time.

     First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-03-24 09:32:49

Jason, they've a lovely Wirtshaus with fine food and their beers of course. The beers are average from bottle but lovely on tap. The brewery was founded in 1617, so it's still one of the oldest existing breweries in Franconia.

       First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-03-24 09:35:05

Well Barry, I'm convinced that was only the first of way more closures to come. Hopefully time will prove me wrong. You're safely back in Wales, aye? Please stay healthy.

         First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-24 09:37:52

See my last post - yes, back in the land of my father!

Who knows what will happen here.  I'm sure that not all the new wave of breweries will survive, who knows about the older ones.

It's a very healthy life, incarcerated in my little house.  Hope that you are ok.

           First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-03-24 09:43:52

Good to hear you're healthy. I'm still working at my Ansbach office but things don't look grand. Not at all. One positive point in my business is: When the crisis is over the economic situation will be a catastrophe. Many unemployed people will give us a hell lot of work. Fine, isn't it? (Sarcasm out).

             First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-24 11:43:22

Will they give you any more money for that pleasure?

               First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Jürgen Wening on  2020-03-25 01:41:55


         First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Edo van Bree on  2020-03-24 13:18:24

one of the first Franconian breweries I ever visited. OK beers, nice beer garden. Very sorry to see it close down.

       First Franconian brewery to close for good because of Corona by  Andrew H on  2020-03-24 14:12:25

God! 1617 imagine the history seeped in the place, a personal tragedy for the family. and also a tragedy for the continuation of tradition. If you make it Jason please raise a seidla for me.

 Biershop Bayern by  TomM on  2020-03-21 09:46:32

This is another company that ships beer inside Germany and abroad. I had checked with them several months ago and it seemed they no longer shipped to the UK. However, looking at the website now it lists the UK under "Shipping". They deliver all over Europe.

I had ordered beer from them on three occasions in the past. Each time I went for the Mixpaket which contains 18 beers from one brewery. You get to pick the beers you want from their range. The beers seem to be shipped directly from the brewery and often contain promotional material and barmats. I found it fun to order from two breweries at the same time and then compare the beers of similar style against each other.

They offer beers from all parts of Bavaria.

Beers from Franken:

   Biershop Bayern by  mikep on  2020-04-12 23:47:47

  Am doing the same, going through and doing the mixpackets.. Though i'll need to wait on a few of them for out of stock festbiers and marzens that are out of season right now.
Going through my Schlappeseppel box now, and just waiting for the rauchbier to restock to get the Grosch. by  TomM on  2020-03-19 17:47:40

Has anyone ordered beer from this company? They specialize in Franconian beer and deliver anywhere in the EU (still including UK). They are based in Bayreuth.

I was wondering if they are reliable and if the beer was fresh. by  Jason  on  2020-03-20 12:47:01

I can't say I have. But I looked at the site and it's worth a try i think, a good selection. I don't think 'freshness' is really an issue given the 6 month mindestens haltbar, as long as the bottles are stored cool and out of sunlight.

I think that answer is to try it. If it works then it would be well worth it. by  TomM on  2020-03-21 03:59:37

Thanks Jason. I may give them a try in the coming weeks.

I have just ordered some bottles from UK-based Beers of Europe. Mostly German from Bayern but only one from Franken (Tucher Bajuvator), and a few from other countries. by  Jason  on  2020-03-21 06:06:29

It's funny, my friend Gregor (known to many on here) just told me he ordered a load of beer from there for the current situation. I'm actually tempted myself as I'll be in Ulm for the next 14 days (at least) and the beer range is rather boring. There are some interesting beers that are hard to get e.g. Buechenbacher, Gradl, Lindenhardt, Puettner etc. And delivery is free over 69EUR here. 

 by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-21 06:53:36

Looks like its €40 for a pack of 20, making the total cost €72.90 for UK delivery. Not bad actually, given that I probably wont be going to Franconia this year, or to a pub for the next few weeks. .Anyone got any experience of UK deliveries? Nice way to support some of the country breweries too.

  by  TomM on  2020-03-21 09:03:07

On the mixed cases of 20, the price per bottle is less the more you order. I figured out you can pay abou 30 UK pence less per bottle if you order three cases at once.

    by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-21 09:14:19

Thanks Tom, might need that many the way things are going....

      by  Jason  on  2020-03-22 05:45:27

Also been looking at that site. I've used them before to send to my parents in France. It's good. 

I think I'm getting too used to living here though, because when I see 18€ per case I'm assuming 18-20 bottles, but it's actually 9. But for the convenience, and having beer from Klosterbrauerei Mallersdorf (who knows how long Sister Doris will brew), it's actually alright. So I've ordered 18 bottles. 

        by  David Greenlee on  2020-03-24 06:04:42

I bought 10 cases (of 9 bottles) from various breweries and even though the shipping was almost as much as the beer, I went ahead anyway. One I really wanted to try was Schrönramer Bräu near Salzburg. Interestingly, the brewmaster, Eric Toft is American which probably goes against everything the purists would believe in but having read a really compelling article in Craft Beer and Brewing magazine, I decided to give it a go. Whether or not they arrive, in the current climate, well we'll just have to wait and see. By the way, the other beers are all Franken!

          by  TomM on  2020-03-24 10:31:49

I bought an 18 bottle case of Schoenramer a number of years ago. They were quite good, better than the Zoetler brewery beers I got at the same time. I especially liked the dunkel.

I would be very interested to know if and when your order arrives as I might be ordering from Biershop Bayern in the coming weeks.

            by  David Greenlee on  2020-03-26 08:03:09

The beer arrived here in Dublin today. Only ordered on Sunday so I am really impressed with the service. Now I need a new fridge!

              by  AndyH on  2020-03-26 08:56:22

I've placed orders with both hier gibt bier and Beers of Europe today. Let's see which one arrives first.

                by  TomM on  2020-04-04 06:11:10

AndyH, did your hier-gibts-bier order show up safe and sound? I am thinking of ordering some from them.

                  by  AndyH on  2020-04-06 01:56:36

Indeed it did, was drinking both Huppendorfer and Hubner beers from the order at the weekend.

                    by  TomM on  2020-04-06 06:04:31


              by  TomM on  2020-03-26 11:04:52

Thanks for the update. I think I will be ordering soon. Enjoy! by  Andrew H on  2020-03-21 14:17:27

I will just add,A very good reputable company that have been going for many years.(based near Kings lynn in Norfolk)

 by  TomM on  2020-03-21 14:25:59

Just to avoid confusion, Beers of Europe is located near King's Lynn, while Hier,gibts.bier is from Bayreuth.

  by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-24 09:35:22

I might have to have a go at one of these services, if they are still operating.

My local micro's have abandoned their good intents because of the problems surrounding delivery and have closed for the duration.  I can't ask my neighbour, who is doing a little bit of shopping for me as I can't go out, to carry back bottles of beer from the supermarket.  I think hst the may be a bit of wine and brandy left - bad vibes!

    by  Andrew H on  2020-03-24 14:03:02

Sympathies from Suffolk Barry, I find myself in a similar situation, it doesnt feel quite right asking my Daughter to lug vast quanities of beer back to the flat.(though of course she would).
I have made enquiries today re the delivery of wine ( Arrrrrgh the dark side!) from a wine merchant who happens to be a few hundred yards from home. I have walked past dozens of times but, never thought I would be tempted. Ah! strange times indeed. All I need now is to spend some of the hours cooped up in becoming more knowledgeable on the filthy stuff.

      by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 05:09:15

I don't mind a glass of red now and again.  In fact, it looks like that's my most likely tipple over the next period, although a fellow drinker from the cloak has volunteered to keep me supplied.  There are some very decent people about!

    by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-25 02:48:52

I know of a few micros that are still delivering, not in your area, unfortunately. No different to food deliveries, I guess, essential services and all that.

      by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 05:11:17

From the folk at the cloak, I think that the various difficulties involved plus the uncertainty of the UK government's (non-)advice re what might be considered 'essential' services.

        by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-25 10:52:18

Just ordered a load of bottles from Beers of Europe, mainly Belgium but half a dozen from Schlenkerla.  Should be interesting, delivery supposed to be 7 days in present circumstances.

          by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-26 05:38:34

Just got half my delivery from hier-gibts-bier(10 bottles), other half tomorrow. Ordered on Saturday, pretty impressive, a lot better than the UK supermarkets at the moment! Pleasant weekend ahead!

            by  Jason  on  2020-03-26 07:10:51

My Mallersdorfer are frutsratingly close at the depot nearby. Bet the buggers at DPD are drinking it! 

What did you go for?

              by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-26 09:05:07

Got the 20 bottle Franconian mixing box#1. 10 arrived, second box tomorrow, apparently. Beers mainly from Frankische Schweiz(Krug, Schroll, Ott) as you might expect, but theres a Schlenkerla. Just wanted to see if it worked OK, might do a second order now and select some favourites.

 Let’s take a breath... by  FredW on  2020-03-18 19:12:47

This is just a suggestion (at this point anyway smiley )

Let restrict discussion on the Corna Virius to your persional experiences with it. How you are dealing with whatever local restrictions you are under. And should anybody test positive, how you are dealing with it.

Thanks, and now go have a beer....

   Let’s take a breath... by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-19 02:55:48

Im planning to visit 2 or 3 local microbreweries and buy some beer directly from them, rather than stocking up on supermarket swill. Think one or two will go under once the pubs close.

   Let’s take a breath... by  MARK ANDERSEN on  2020-03-19 04:47:58

A very good suggestion.


     Let’s take a breath... by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-19 05:48:29

See my comments elsewhere. I've been pleasantly surprised by the beer that's available in supermarkets in Andalucia. In Cordoba, I tried the Doblo Malta (double malt, I think), Voll-Dam Maerzenbier. As Jason remarked on FB, brewed in Barcelona and it was a little sweet, but hardly surprising as it was 7,2% but not at all bad. Yesterday, I drank a bottle of El Aguila sin filtrar lager, an unfiltered lager at 5,5% and very tasted. Also a couple of bottles of Affligem Dubbel at 6,8% - really nice, as I'm sure that most of you would know!

       Let’s take a breath... by  Jason  on  2020-03-19 06:57:48

There's actually a lot of good 'craft' beer in Spain now. There was a good brewery in Seville and a bottle shop I think (sorry Barry). To be honest, being there in June one year, the local Cruzcampo tasted fantastic when temperatures were at 40 degrees!

Barcolona is probably one of the best craft beer cities in the world right now. I stayed just outside in the nearby town of Mataro last summer and visited the Drunken Monk, a place I first visited in 2011, completely obscure world class Belgium bar with a great bottled and draft selection, including draft Lambic and Gueuze. A few years' ago I was in Mikkeller Barcelona before a Pearl Jam concert and must have racked up a bill of 80EUR and the manager (also a fan) just said "give me 30EUR". 

As you can imagine, my needs are met beer wise right now by supermarkets... I have some Eichhorn, Held-Braeu, Sonne and Hummel chilling in my fridge. Like most people on here though, drinking at home is ok, but I miss going to a pub or, with the weather like now, a bier Keller. 

         Let’s take a breath... by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-19 07:27:47

Presumably a lot of people are buying beer direct from the breweries too? Missing the pub already, we were last out on Saturday night. Suppose to have friends up this weekend for an annual Newcastle pub crawl, now postponed until who knows when. Hope to be in Bamberg in June.

 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-03-17 04:44:23

As of tomorrow restaurants, cafes. Ice cream parlors etc. can open only between 6am and 3 pm. They can sell take-away and deliver food.

Spezial,  Fässla, Knoblach and many other brewepubs will close completely,

Schlenkerla will open from 9am to 3pm. But a maximum of 30 guests are allowed. They offer take-away at a stall in the beergarden untli 10 pm.

Hotels are
are not allowed to accommodate tourists.

Bakers, butchers,
Supermarkets etc. will open. Thex have the possibliry to open on sondays for some hours,

The rules change more or less daily. It is confusing that the rules differ from state to state.

   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Sol on  2020-03-17 06:54:51

Probably wise. In Norway we have a completely shut down borders, airports, public offices, restaurants, sport activities, schools and universities. My Franken trip in May will probably not happen. Take care!

     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Mark Andersen on  2020-03-17 08:18:58

Same here in Massachusetts.  Everything is shut as of today other than pharmacies and grocery stores.  The shutdown is set for 3 weeks but nobody will be surprised if it is continued longer.

Fortunately I hadn't planned on going to Franken until late November.  That now appears to be a fortuitous decision.

       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-17 11:17:15

Hoping, but not expecting to go in June. More stuff closing daily here in UK.

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  FredW on  2020-03-17 12:52:19

I have Thomas Gapski's FeWo booked in July, but I too am not hopeful.

Was planning on visiting Berlin and Prague in May, but that is probably out as well (sorry, Barry).

LA is not on "lockdown" but bars, restaurants, gyms, theaters, etc. are closed within the city limits and people are recommended to stay home, if possible. Sadly, some of the restaurants in areas outside the city limits are advertising "Hey, we're open, come on in"  while claming to have tables 6 feet apart. Not a good move.

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-18 04:10:11

This is also the case here, and even more in the UK (we're all at different stages of this virus, as far as how many we are testing). The UK and US seem to think that throwing money at it and making half arsed recommendations will cut it, which is systematic of poor leadership and not taking responsibility. Some pubs in the UK are full! Here Schlenkerla and Greifenklau are open until 15.00. I can't blame them, but this isn't the right way to go. People cannot obey rules that aren't there. And for those of us staying at home and only going out to food shop, when you see people out enjoying themselves, your first reaction is either a) sod it I'll join them or b) resentment. Especially as spring has arrived here and the weather is good for the first time in 6 months. Either way, it's not enough. 

What is most frustrating is that here you have a population that obeys rules in the main and have the support network (financially, no gig economy or zero hour contracts here that I know of) and the supply chain reliability to get through a quarantine period. In the UK,a lot of people cannot stop working for real fear of seriously going under financially.  

For now though, we're in the twilight zone here. 

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-18 05:38:57

Pubs packed in Newcastle for Paddy's day yesterday, its crazy. They cant claim on insurance unless the government orders them to close, so of course they are all still open and urging people to pop in. 

               Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  David Greenlee on  2020-03-18 06:07:56

A very strange St. Patrick's day here in Ireland. All pubs ordered to close. Most restaurants and coffee shops following suit. Work place also starting to close here too and all of my elderly neighbours are staying indoors. Of course there will always be the arseholes who think they know better than all the medical experts put together but hopefully they are in the minority. I hope you all manage to keep safe and that we meet again on the other side. Zum Wohl!

                 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-19 05:38:29

Thank you Dave. By 'the other side', I hope that you mean the end of the C-19 crisis!

                   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  David Greenlee on  2020-03-19 10:04:38

Absolutely Barry

               Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  AndyH on  2020-03-18 07:19:50

Most won't have insurance for this anyway.

                 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-18 10:50:16

From what I've heard this is true. The insurance business is as slippery as a jelied eel, and becasue Coronavirus is new and wasn't specified in the policies there is a grey area here, even if you have 'protection'. 

The government need to step in here otherwise pubs etc will be in serious trouble.

                   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  AndyH on  2020-03-19 08:24:43

Basically the first 6 monrths of the year is a 100% write off for us in the travel industry.

Just heard that the whole Oberammergau Passion Play has been cancelled from May right through to October and will be reorganised for 2022.

       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-17 12:36:57


Are liquor stores closed in Massachusetts?  The New Hampshire State Liqour Stores are open (and grocery stores in NH are open and sell beer).

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Mark Andersen on  2020-03-17 12:44:27

I'm not sure.  I haven't checked today.  Luckily I stocked up prior to the shutdown.

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-17 20:02:27

I checked.  Both liquor stores in Andover, MA, are open for business, normal hours.

   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Mosquit on  2020-03-18 01:22:33

I am worried how this would affect business of some existing brewpubs when (if?) this will be over, especially those being run by older people (such as Witzgall, for example). Will they open again at all?  

     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-18 03:01:11

I think you underestimate what Franconians will do when they are stuck at home. Beer off-sales will go through the roof. Witzigall and other breweries don't make much money from their pubs (that's why the pubs are always the first thing to close). There is also a lot of support for small businesses being offered by the government if necessary. 

On this occasion though, I really have no capacity to worry about unrelated entities like breweries. I'm worried about my job and life quality over the coming years if the economy is badly damaged.

       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Andrew H on  2020-03-18 08:02:00

I understand your concerns Jason, of course I am no financial expert, but it is my opinion that there will be a huge surge in spending at the end of the crisis.And that most of the economy will recover fairly quickly. (well, I hope so!)
I get that this is a vilurent strain of flu but,wonder if we havent got things a little bit out of perspective? Influenza kills half a million people a year world wide.Over 1500 people die on the roads in the UK each year.The death rate of Covid 19 is 0.2% (and of course being elderly and with health problems) It has me firmly in its sights lol. But, I am self isolating for a week after getting a few symptoms. As said by the great Barry, those of us that come out the other side will have a knees up on good Franken bier.Prost!

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-18 09:27:24

The death rate of this coronavirus is not 0.2%.  It is at least 2%.  it is not "flu" (which has a typical mortality rate of 0.1%).  

There is no stopping this virus spreading through the world's population at this point.  All the efforts now are to slow it down so that it does not overwhelm the healthcare system.  There are only so many hospital beds, ventilators, and staff.

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-18 10:04:09

I think, Jimbo, that the 0.2% is based on the assumption that there are many people out there who have the virus, but are only showing mild symptoms and havent been tested. S. Korea, which has the most comprehensive testing regime has 1% death rate. 

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Mosquit on  2020-03-18 10:50:39

In Italy mortarity is around 6% or even more, at the moment. Every day, 400+ people die (today: 475 so far)

Death rate depends on how quickly the virus spreads. If it spreads quickly, a lot of people needs medical threatment. As number of places in hospitals is limited, only some of the people who need help will get the help. The rest is having bad luck. Therefore high death reate. 

               Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-18 10:54:34

This is the key and (with respect) why we should never compare to flu. Hospitals will not manage a surge, and what happens when doctors and nurses begin to come down with it?

Anyway, let's try (me included) to keep this forum as an oasis to escape this whole business.  


                 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Mark Andersen on  2020-03-18 12:05:44

I don't know about everyone else but I am at this point inundated with information about this.  I've been reading about it obsessively for 3 weeks.  We're doing what we can here in Massachusetts.  All of my employees have got the full go ahead to work from home.

It would be nice if we could keep this forum as an oasis from this nightmare.  And it is a nightmare.  Naturally conversations can drift to it as it's weighing on all our minds heavily. 


             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-18 10:54:52

Wishful thinking.  If there really are 10x more people infected than have been reported, then, yes, the mortality rate could be 0.2%.  That is another reason more testing is absolutely necessary. 

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Andrew H on  2020-03-18 14:49:23

yea,up to 39 years 0,2% even up to 50 only slightly higher. And the stats come from china via Buzzfeed (whatever that is?) Get a grip everybody! its not the Apocolypse.

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-18 19:07:26

Not sure of you point.  Are you saying people over 50 years of age don't matter?  Just let them die?

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  David Greenlee on  2020-03-19 01:08:21

Try selling that statistic to the loved ones of the 3000 people in Italy who have so far died.

     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-18 03:13:41

Those fellow forummers who are also Facebook friends will know that I have been on 'holiday' in Andalucia for the last 16 days. I have thus experienced the changing status of covid-19 as a tourist for this period - and it has not been an altogether pleasant experience. Currently, I am incarcerated in a very pleasant 4th floor apartment in a suburb of Sevilla, prohibited from visiting the city and allowed out only to buy food (& drink - red wine) or visit a pharmacy. I'm reasonably well equipped to cope because I have lived alone for the last 3 years and spend a lot of time in this position. The worst thing for me is the frustration of knowing that the city of Sevilla is just over the horizon but unreachable. I think that the Spanish government has been correct in ordering a lockdown - the Chinese & Korean experience seems to show that this is the only way forward - short term pain for long term gain. But I'm not a healthcare expert. Fred, your comments noted, sadly, maybe we should thinking about some sort of forum gathering in Franken to celebrate the end of this catastrophe - whenever that may be. In the meantime, to all Forum friends, take care.

       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Andrew H on  2020-03-18 08:08:06

Whats the situation regarding the apartment Barry? is it supplied by the authorities? or are you having to stump up yourself? If so, ouch! thats going to hurt.
Coudnt you visit the pharmacy in Seville,and the shops.tee hee.

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-19 05:28:27

No it's an Airbnb, owned by a really nice chap called Abel. It's hard to describe the stuff that he's provided, far and above that called for. I'm really sorry for him because Airbnb's policy is to refund all fees paid by renters, which means that he has lot 4 days rent from me and, of course, all his other renters have cancelled. He works at IKEA, which has closed and staff are not being paid, and he also works as a personal trainer &, of course, he can't do that under the present circumstances. Just an example that some people are really having it hard. So, did the supermarket yesterday, today it will be the pharmacy, before my host's father comes to take me to the airport. I've just checked, so it looks like the flight will operate - but I don't really want to go home! Sorry, Franken, as soon as it's possible, I'm coming back to Andalucia! Now, more importantly, I know about your health situation Andy, and hope that you are taking care of yourself. Best wishes.

     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-03-18 03:52:23

From the outside, it is difficult to assess the economic situation of breweries.

But I believe, Witzgall is in a good position. Such breweries have not to pay a rental fee and have and probably no debt. They mainly sell off ramp.

I have spoken with Stefan Zehender. They hve closed their brewpub totally..Not enough guests for lunch. Above all, it's about security - for the family members and the workers and the guests..

The Café Abseits closes this afternoon until further notice all day. Same ree. Same reasons as with Zehendner.

       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-18 10:58:48

Is there any talk in Germany of allowing pubs such as Cafe Abseits to sell beer to-go (take-away) during this crisis?  Would this be practical?

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-18 15:10:21

Why would pubs sell beer to go when you have supermarkets with bottled beer? People don't really discriminate between draft and bottled beer. 

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-18 19:06:21

Well, some US states are allowing restaurants to sell beer and wine (and in NYC cocktails) to go.  Not sure who is going to pay for those drinks, though, because as you say, people can just buy drinks at the market for home.

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-03-19 05:50:02

In Germany we have short opening times for the supermarkets and other shops (state lass). So the pubs, kiosks and markets at the airports, railway staions, motorway service areas, gas stations can satisfy the demand after the supermarkets are closed. In Berlin they call such kiosks "Späti" (spät = late). The prices lie betwen the prices in the supermarkets and the prices in pubs and restaurants.

The demand for bottle beer in pubs for take away is not small. The Café Abseits sells around 20 bottles per day. We have a price reducton of 1 Euro compared with hte price in the pub

Another difference to the USA is, that You can drink beer on the street. Is called "Wegbier" (path beer). In Bamberg they call it "Brückenbier", because many people drink beer on the Untere Brücke.

         Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2020-03-19 02:31:18

I can answer You.

In the law, § 7 Gaststättengesetz


the Gaststätten (pubs and restaurants etc.; only the british law makes a difference)
has the right to sell "Nebenleistungen" (fringe benefits) to their guests,
The products:
Getränke und zubereitete Speisen, die er in seinem Betrieb verabreicht,
Flaschenbier, alkoholfreie Getränke, Tabak- und Süßwaren
This means: draft beer is not allowed to sell " über die Straße" (take away).
Selling bottle beer, non alcohol drinks, food, tabacco an confectionery is allowed.
And Yu can do this also after the time, when the pub is closed (but only within the regular curfew before the Corona restrictions-).

Some brewpubs and pubs do this now:
Greifenklau (they offer special dishes)
Volksgarten (they aloo deliver)

In practice it may be difficult to close the pub and open the "shop" for the allowed products without confusing the guests. In the most cases the pub is the same room as the shop (the difference is only an idea, a legal mind game. It is not legal to draft a beer for the waiting customer.

The Schlenkerla has a stall in their beergarden. The customers order and a waiter brings him the food from the kitchen..

           Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-19 05:34:26

I just received a missive from CAMRA - think it's called 'All in this together' encouraging people to buy beer from their local pub as a take-away (many pubs in the UK are now calling their take-away containers 'growlers' but a growler is really a pork pie!). I assume that pubs will have to adjust their prices a bit to make this work. They should be able to because I think that they've been given some financial help with business rates, etc. I'll certainly try to buy from my local micro.

             Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jeff on  2020-03-19 10:14:22

A growler (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, plastic, or stainless steel bottle (or jug) used to transport draft beer in the United States, Canada, Australia, Brazil and other countries. They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer.

               Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-19 10:47:58

Up here in the North of England, its a pork pie.

                 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason  on  2020-03-19 23:45:48

Here in Germany they are called a Siphon. Very useful, I have 1, 2, and 3 liter variants at home. 

                 Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-20 02:39:50

Glad to hear that you are keeping traditional word usage alive! I can't understand why some of the micros have adopted the growler term.

                   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Uncle Jimbo on  2020-03-20 10:26:26

They adopted the term growler because that is the word used in America (and has been for at least 90 years).

                     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Roy Taylor on  2020-03-21 04:44:09

Yes but why? Normally, words are adopted into a language for new concepts but pub takeaways have been the norm in the UK for literally centuries.

                   Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason  on  2020-03-20 13:10:24

What word would you suggest rather than a word that is already in existence in the country that speaks the same language? I am not sure this has caused any great confusions over the past decade or so. 

I'd be interested to know if there was any tradition of taking draft beer home draft in the UK (as in 50-100-150 years ago. I remember when the 'plastic' 2 pint 'growlers' came into commonality in the UK back in the early 2000s. I have to say, real ale does not benefit from being decanted into 2 vessels, the precious life of the beer is lost and you end up with a flat mess at the end. Glass would be better but still. I've had a glass siphon filled here with beer from the tanks, i.e. Doerfleins and Spezial, and it was good (Doerfeins better), but at the end of the day where ever you are, beer is a fresh product and needs to be respected. From kegs dispense it's fine, with the extraneous CO2. 

I really like the ceramic jugs people bring into pubs here and in Czechia, near where they live, so the beer is fresh. That's the only way draft beer should be taken away. Anything else is a compromise I think. 

                     Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Barry Taylor on  2020-03-21 07:31:27

I'm not sure that a new word is particularly needed: my two local micro's both have tried to develop a takeaway trade and I think with some success.  AFAIK, the Bay Hop calls its cardboardboard cartons 'growlers' but The Black Cloak is a bit more innovative and uses metal cans, which it fills and then seals: it calls these 'crowlers'!  I only know that becasue I looked on their website.  This is a bit signficant because, although I've quite often seen cartons or cans being filled at both pubs, I've never heard anyone say 'Fill me a growler (or crowler)!'.  It is more something like 'I'll take away 2 pints of xxx xxx'. 

A language changes because of popular usage and, as L'Academie Francais has found, you can't really legislate for new words coming into a language (l.e. le or la Sex and le or la weekend - I don't know the respective genders).  Someone coined the word 'television' (possibly in a patent application?) by combining the Greek word 'tele', meaning 'distance' and the Latin word 'vision' - the process of seeing.  But the 'folk' coined the word 'telly' and that is the word in common usage.

I don't know how 'growler' came to mean pork pie but I new it from my time in London, so I was interested in John's report (from Newcastle, John?).: Partridge gives several meanings (including one rather crude anatomical reference) and one that is interesting in this discussion: Growler: a four-wheeled cab; colloquial c.1865; hence 'work the growler', to go in a cab from pub to pub; low colloquial late C.19-20th.C.  As a corollary, he also has:'growlery': one's private sitting room; maybe from Dicken's Bleak House, 1852-3.    So, what do I know, maybe we should be welcoming the word back into British usage!

Regarding Jason's question about what used to be called 'off-sales' , yes, they were extremely common from pubs in the past.  'Jug and bottles' (that gives a pretty firm clue as to the containers used) were an integral feature of pubs up to around probably the 1970s (?) and there are one or two pubs still called that (including one in Heswall - I think this is close to where Beth comes from?).  The nearest pub to me when I was growing up was an estate pub in Wythenshawe called The Benchill Hotel (Threlfall's beers - I used to sell football papers outside it on a Saturday night when I was at school and 'hotel' was a very grandose term for what was a pretty rough pub!).  It opened in 1936 and had a separate area (hard to see in the photo's on for off-sales, complete with mild and bitter handpumps (no pump clips in those days) and shelves of bottles.  I remember that people used to come with a range of containers but mainly jug-type things.

As an added facility for drinking at home, Davenport's Brewery from Birmingham used to delivery beer to the house and their delivery network network covered most of England, AFAIK - certainly it included Manchester.  They were taken over by the dastardly Greenall's but have now reappeared as a craft brewery - good!

Personally, I don't think that there's much wrong with takeaway cask ale, as long as it is drunk reasonably soon after purchase.  It should contain sufficient fermentable matter to give it life for even a day or two, provided it is stored at a reasonable temperature (around 8 - 10C?).  Contrary to popular belief, I have found that beer even keeps quite well in PET bottles, if stored in a cool, dark place.  I used to use for my homebrew and didn't find any significant deterioration even after some months; in fact, the taste often improved!  

                       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  JohnRatcliffe on  2020-03-21 09:18:34

Originally from Blackburn, Lancashire, where pies are usually meat and potato. First heard growler to describe a pork pie from a colleague from Middlesbrough, seems to be relatively common in Yorkshire and the North East where I now live.

                       Corona Bamberg brewpubs by  Jason on  2020-03-21 11:35:06

Thanks Barry for the info. However, cask ale doesn't keep well. It just doesn't. Maybe you're willing to put up with the deterioration, but it doesn't mean it keeps well. As soon as air gets to it it's dying. If you buy it from the pub round the corner and take it home and drink it, fine. But not keeping it for longer than a few hours, unless it's high in alcohol (but it's still better in the pub). I remember weirdos at beer fests that would go round filling up those old panda pop bottles to then take home and drink hours later. Some even swapped with their mates that went to other beer festivals for ticks. I started refusing them when I worked. This is why cask ale is superior to keg in my view. Fresh is best. 

PET bottles in the Czech Republic are excellent. These are generally filled from the tanks or via taps but they have high levels of CO2 which fills any vacuum to avoid being spoiled. They need to be kept cold and don't last long but they're the best way to drink Czech beer if you can't visit the pub. Bottled (traditional) Czech beer is just wrong. 


You can start a new discussion topic below...
The value is required.
The value is required. Must be an email address.
The value is required.